On May 28, 11:14*am, Home Guy wrote:
mike used improper usenet message composition style by unnecessarily
full-quoting:

You're pushing a very big rock up a hill to nowhere.

I should not see a huge spike in monthly usage during a month when our
hvac usage is practically zero. *Investigating the reasons for this
spike is not path to nowhere.

Your meter will give you little useful information.

An unnecessarily dramatic statement.

To say that a clamp-on amp meter can't give useful information is
hyperbole.

You need to KNOW the phase.

To the extent that my aggregate power factor is less than .95 or .9,
yes, then I need to know the phase.

Are you suggesting that my effective power factor is likely to be less
than .9?

What is the power factor of 10 to 20 year-old florescent lamp ballasts?
Or a 1 hp, 220 VAC fan motor? *Or a 10 year old refridgerator? *Or a
typical desktop PC power supply?

Those are the largest (and probably only) non-resistive loads in
question here.

Why do you care?

Because I pay the bills. *What a stupid ass question that was.

If you think the equipment is faulty, you should enlist the power
company.

I've already stated that I've contacted them, and that I expect to
encounter difficulty in having them ever admit that their metering
equipment could be faulty or even undertake a process to evaluate the
meter, but I will pursue every course of action and give them every
chance to determine that.

I've found 'em to be very knowledgeable and helpful.

In the pages and pages of materials and contracts that exist for this
utility, describing all manner of service obligation and liability,
billing, etc, I find nothing in print that defines a process whereby a
billing meter is tested or what is done if a meter is found to be
defective.

There is absolutely nothing I can find in writing even contemplating the
possibility of a meter that does not measure correctly. *

I believe that issue is a political "hot potatoe" for all municipal
electricity suppliers, something they'd rather not have to deal with and
hence they largely remain silent about it.

If you think they're intentionally screwing you,

I believe that they never "intentionally" screw anyone, but that instead
they put up a front that their meters are always correct, all the time,
and reinforce that by not mentioning the possibility of erroneous meter
operation anywhere in any printed material they make available, let
alone define in writing a process or methods to test a meter that the
client believes is suspect.

Measuring VA is an exercise in futility.

The worst I can do by measuring VA is to OVER-ESTIMATE my watts used by
5 or 10% - unless you think it's likely that my aggregate power factor
is less than 90%.

Your "finger" ain't gonna hold up in court anyway.

Making my own measurements would be a first-step. *I never said I'd use
those measurement in court (that is your hyperbole again).

If indeed it got that far, then I would investigate my options have
having an acredited third-party measurement performed, and that would
only happen if my local utility did not perform their own tests that I
was satisfied was unbiased and accurate.

@Home Guy:

Ah, the true picture emerges -- an accounts payable rep who thinks
that because they pay the bills they understand how everything
works...

You clearly lack the technical expertise to do anything about this
on YOUR side of the meter...

You seem to not understand the regulations which protect consumers
and control how power is sold in your state -- therefore you are
unaware
of your potential remedies in this "situation" if one really exists...

Instead of spending your time researching something actually useful
which might shed some light on what is actually going on (if anything
really is at all) you have chosen to ask stupid questions which are
clearly not on the proper wavelength to make any sense to someone
who actually understands electrical issues AND you are chasing after
something *YOU* can do which would support *YOUR* claim that
your electrical meter is not functioning correctly when there may
in fact be a procedure to follow which has already been defined by
the public utilities commission (or equivalent in your state) which
would almost always involve bringing in an uninterested third
party with the proper credentials and equipment to assess what
if anything is happening in this whole convoluted story...

It seems whenever you get some sound advise that would make
sense in the real world, you attack the contributor because the
person didn't respond with the specific answer you were looking
for in your especially preferred format... So you critique based
on newsgroup etiquette and posting format rather than the
supplied content -- keep doing that and you will be properly
labeled as a troll and written off as such...

~~ Evan