On May 17, 3:35*pm, Andy wrote:
On May 17, 7:30 am, "
wrote:



Last time I checked, plugging an accessory into a computer did
not typically require an electrical permit. * *Nor does
it require that the person doing the work do it in accordance with
the NEC and that it pass inspection after the local electrical
inspector looks at it. * Nor does the computer situation involve
working with lethal voltages, which, if not done correctly, could
kill either the person doing the work or others.

**** Last time I checked, anyone could hook a solar panel to
a battery and an inverter..... most without reading the directions.
Usually the voltages are the same as in a computer --- 120 AC
is typically the highest.... What sort of ultra-high voltage PV
array are you talking about..??

See the difference?

***** Nope... And, if you do, you are looking in the wrong direction.

Who said anything about an array being ultra-high voltage?
We were discussing the feasibility of a person who stated
he has very little experience working with electricty installing
his own residential PV system. I said it has voltages that
are potentially lethal to either the installer or others if not
done correctly.

So then you make the asinine statement that installing
a residential PV array is similar to plugging an
accessory into a computer. Now maybe where you
come from, that means playing with a 2 watt array and
a 9v battery. But the systems that are being deployed in
the rest of the country typically are not in that category.
And I don't believe that is what Jim was talking about
either.

One of the first replies was from John Grabowski,
a real licensed electrician, who pointed out some of
the many issues that apparently you and the idiot
harry can't grasp. The PV system has to be installed
to conform with the NEC. It needs a permit. It needs
to be inspected. And it deals with 240V which, unlike
adding a USB peripheral to a PC, can kill you. I can
legally go over to my neighbors house and install
a wireless network for his PC. I cannot do that
with a PV array unless I'm a licensed electrician.
And if I do PC work, the warranty on the $50 router
is still valid. If I install a PV system as a DIY, I'll
bet there's a good chance the warranty is kaput.

See the differences now?





Financial advisability

Which is also wrong. * There are lots of incentives and they vary
from state to state. *In places like NJ and CA, with all the
incentives
from federal, state and local, PV can be a sound financial decision
for a homeowner in under 10 years.

**** So, if you like it, you should do it..... *Someone who only looks
at the "financial incentives" and doesn't understand the issue enough
to do the electrical evaluation and tradeoffs themselves will
probably end up going back to the grid......

Sigh. You really don't get it at all do you? Of all the systems I've
seen installed around here, NONE are off the grid. Nor was there
anything in Jim's post suggesting he was going off grid. These
PV systems work in conjunction with the grid. Capiche?

As far as someone needing to be capable of doing the electrical
evaluation and tradeoffs in order to understand the economics,
that's just more nonsense.



But, I'm not going
to change my lifestyle, which is quite comfortable, for a few
dollars of "tax savings" ...... *Good luck to those who do.




And yet more nonsense. Who said anything about anyone
changing their lifestyle for a few dollars of tax savings?
You really don't know the first thing about PV at all. I
know several people here who have the typical 6KW
size systems installed and none have changed their
lifestyle one bit. Nor did they need to understand
the technical details of electricity to calculate and
evaluate the payback.





Almost all of the solar installs in the US are not "off grid". *In
fact,
they only work in conjunction with the grid. *So, no need for
the experiment and only a loon that currently has grid power
available would dut there ties to the grid.

*** *Ok. * *Since I pay about 10 cents per kwh for "on the grid"
I hope those people who are trying to get rich by selling sunlight
to the power companies have luck with their investment, which
typically runs many tens of thousands of dollars. *My electricity
useage for the rest of my life won't cost as much as most
PV installations.... Perhaps I am in the minority. Presently, for
the last 10 years (which I keep records of) I use about $1700 worth
of electricity a year, for a 3000 sq ft (approx) house with an
irrigation pump to pump lake water to my garden..... That's the
TOTAL for about 100 miles south of Dallas , Texas ... Statistically,
I'll live another 15 years...... You do the math.


You make the mistake of assuming what you happen to encounter
in your own little world is entirely consistent with the rest of the
world. In NJ, as in many other parts of the country with large
polulations, the cost of electricity is signifcantly higher. It's
around 18c kwh here. So that $1700 bill would be $3000 here.
The cost of a residential PV array to support that bill would
be about $50K here. There is a 30% federal tax credit, meaning
you get $15K cut off your tax bill. NJ also has state incentives
that can provide about another $10K rebate. That brings
the system down to $25K.

Perhaps you've heard of this little issue with greenhouse gases?
To reduce CO2 emissions the feds and various states have
instituted measures to encourage utilities to use power from
green sources. In NJ, the utilities are required to buy an
increasing shard of their power from green sources and
residential PV arrays meet that goal. For every 1000KWh
of power your PV array produces, you get a certificate that
the electric companies will then buy from you to meet
that goal. That's right. Even though you may use all
the power from the PV array over a year for your own
usage, you still get the certificates, because it's reducing
greenhouse gas emissions.

Those certificates from the 6KW PV system are
currently being bought by the electic companies here
for several thousand dollars a year. So, you have
a system that costs a net $25K, your $2000 electric bill
is reduced to near zero, and you get $3000 in
cash each year.

That's the math.

Oh, and you don't have to change your lifestyle one bit either.


Which leads me to wonder how much you really know about
solar at all.

**** I know enough to know that it doesn't make sense for me to
convert to it, even if I design and build my own system, which I
am fully qualified to do......Actually, I have done it, but only on a
small
scale to see the feasibility .... *It was fun...

I suggest that you have read a bunch of magazine articles put out
by people who sell and/or install PV stuff, and you feel that you are
somehow expert in the field..... * Good luck with that...
Tell us about your own personal experience with designing , building,
and installing PV systems and we'll compare notes......And by
designing, I'm talking about the component level... not plugging
cards into connectors..... *Been there, done that, got a bunch of
patents on it.....

* * * * *Andy in Eureka, *licensed PE, GMDSS, GROL ,BS, MS, etc....

You may be licensed, but I wouldn't let you anywhere near my house.
You think you know a lot, but clearly don't