"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
Robert Green wrote:

## See imbedded observations
!!! See imbedded replies



Me too. You have to realize this is futile, Han. If Obama were to
release the certificate, those who don't believe will simply reject
it as a forgery that Obama's people needed time to complete. Yet
these are the people who will defend to the death Bush's refusal to
access his Air National Guard performance records.

## Bush's National Guard records have no bearing on his qualification for
the presidency.

!!! Strictly speaking. However, you'll notice I did not claim those records
were anything, other than that they dribbled out slowly and incompletely
over time and that Republicans were clamoring to keep them private. The
Bush camp certainly acted and seemed to believe that Bush's ANG records
might affect his "(re-) electability" - something different from
Constitutional qualifications but obviously required to become POTUS. The
Swiftboaters certainly felt that past military behavior was something of
great importance to "electability" and did serious damage to Kerry's
campaign with dubious reports and slurs.

I've just *got* to ask. What do birthers expect to find that's so damning
in Obama's hidden "long" form they're all longing to see?

This is about shock, not truth. It's all about people *still* not
believing that they could have possibly lost the election, so they're
looking for ways to "redo" the vote or invalidate the outcome, at
least in their minds. The claims of ineligibility is about the only
avenue left for some to deal with the trauma of a Democratic
president, especially a black Constitutional Law scholar and
"organizer" having won the election against a seasoned man like
McCain. It was and is pretty shocking, there's no doubt about it.
No one lives easily being on the wrong end of a "sure thing."

## Losers are always looking for something to blame for the loss. Obama's
election proved that this great country CAN elect a black man as
president.

!!! Just by saying "Obama's election proved" (jingoism deleted!) pretty much
says how much it was considered impossible by pols to elect a black, for at
least the years I've been alive. A lot of people are still shocked that it
*did* happen. That's not racism, it's just the historical results of every
political poll ever taken on the subject up until it actually happened.
When someone starts shouting "RACE CARD!" every time they see the words
"black" and "Obama" in the same sentence, I suggest they're not
understanding what the phrase even means.

Regrettably, Obama's performance has proven it will be generations before
the country elects another black man as president.

!!! Ouch! Now there's the *reverse* race card! Aren't you essentially
claiming "If one black fails, they will all be failures?" The irony in your
statement is that Obama actually stands a decent chance of being elected if
the Republicans don't counter with an impressive candidate. So far, they
have a very muddy and unimpressive field now apparently lead by the Donald,
famous for his odd hair and many bankruptcy filings over the year.

Voters for the President pretty much only care about the crisis of the
moment, which has well over a year to occur. There are plenty of twists and
turns the world takes in over a year. McCain might have actually won had he
not selected Palin. Guys like Ryan are already fluttering around a number
of political "third rails" like privatizing Medicare while the Repubs are
still at the "TV character/candidate" phase. There is still plenty of time
and opportunity for the Republicans to get into serious trouble with their
Tea Party "wing." The Right could easily split and put forth a third party
candidate like Ross Perot. Anyone who follows politics knows that the Far
Right doesn't think the rank and file Republicans represent them, setting
the stage for a splintering of the party.

Last time the "TV Candidate" was DA Arthur Branch from LawnOrder. Now we
are asked: President Trump? Maybe the time has come to ask if we're ready
for a Mormon president. Along with Jews, women and blacks, they are/were
thought to be inelectable. The people who voted for Obama mostly knew he
was black from the start. The primary voters for Hillary knew she was a
woman. Religion's not quite the same. I don't believe a candidate's
religion is as obvious as his race and that some candidates could build up a
lot of steam only to find people turning against them once their religious
affiliation becomes widely known. Hasn't every POTUS been a mainline
Christian for a long, long time? That's why some people have desperately
tried to portray Obama as Muslim - they have to be even less electable than
Mormons in the eyes of many Americans.

I'm *still* not over the verdict in the OJ trial. I remember where I
was standing in Crystal City when I heard the news. That "hero" (my
ass!!) slaughtered his wife and her friend Ron. All you had to do
was to listen to him ranting on some of the 911 calls. He was way
over the edge. If anyone was ever guilty of murder, it was Orenthal
J. Simpson. Reversals like that, where the expected outcome is SO
alien to what you know and believe in, are very hard to shake. Only
time will do it. And maybe not even that.

## That OJ Simpson was found not guilty is a credit to our judicial
system.
The jury refused to allow the prosecution to frame a guilty man.

!!! It would be a credit if an *innocent* man had beaten an alleged "frame"
job. It's not a credit to allow a clearly guilty man to escape because a
detective once used the N word and foolishly denied it. It should have
merely given doubt to Fuhrman's testimony. There was still plenty of good
evidence left but the LA DA's office muffed nearly every advantage they had
in the face of OJ's very effective legal team. It's hard to listen to some
of the Nicole Brown 911 calls (with OJ screaming death threats like a
maniac) and come away with any sense other than "he's a f*cking stone cold
killer." But the OJ jury did.

We just had a "leather glove" thread. What nimlo doesn't know that a glove
soaked in blood shrinks a size or two? Members of the OJ jury, that's who!
Remove the possibly tainted evidence and you've still got lots of other
quality evidence, like the Bruno Magli shoes. That sort of evidence just
couldn't be doctored without a time machine. Fuhrman offers a lot of
interesting insight at (ugh!) Oprah's site:

http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Mark-...-Trial/print/1

Apparently Chris Darden and Marcia Clark made *lots* of mistakes that never
saw the light of day, including crediting Vanatter with evidence gathering
done by others and failing to make use of very good evidence (OJ's bloody
fingerprint on the gate latch).

LE and high profile people often interact badly for a wide range of reasons.
I can't remember what it's cost to put Pistol Packin' Psycho Phil Spector
away after the first trial/travesty but it was enormous. Has the justice
system improved since the OJ verdict? Who knows? Robert Blake walked,
probably only because the victim in that case (Bonnie Lee the Blackmailer)
was slightly less sympathetic than Vlad the Impaler. That prosecution
wasn't as badly botched as OJ's, but it turned out to have some serious
defects, like the veracity of the witnesses, with whom many deals were cut
in exchange for damning testimony.

I gotta admit - getting blood from a suspect (OJ) to (allegedly) dribble
around later at a crime scene was something that shocked me. But I can see
how something like that could become routine with at least some experienced
homicide detectives that had seen good cases melt away under an intense
legal spotlight.

Extensive media coverage can turn any routine event into a circus. The
media, IIRC, was much more concerned with Marcia Clark's hair-style change
than they were with the facts of a case. When defendants like Robert Blake,
Michael Jackson or Phil Spector go on trial, the legal system is just not
equipped to handle the resulting "deep pore" scrutiny. The OJ trial was a
judicial travesty and not anyone's shining hour - except, oddly, yours. (-:

Here in DC cops are getting the shaft for escorting Charlie "7g rock" Sheen
to a gig using lights and sirens. Celebs and cops - bad mixture.

--
Bobby G.