Hi Jeff,

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I see the problem today as one of folks cutting and pasting
"app notes" together -- letting the component manufacturers
do their engineering for them.

Yep. I just love "reference design" clones that don't work any better
than what the applications engineer threw together. Some of them look
like test fixtures or evaluation boards, not finished products. With
RF, layout is actually more important than component selection.
However, we're not talking about RF here. It's ordinary mundane
capacitors that are the current problem.

But if you don't have *hard* data (specs) for the components
you're designing around, how can you accurately predict what
the "support circuitry" will be tasked with?

Look at a datasheet today. Any numbers that are present are in
the "typ" column. "Um, how does that figure vary with temperature?
Process? Supply voltage? Windspeed? etc."

Many devices have 1,000+ (I put the comma in there so you wouldn't
think I meant "100") page datasheets. How am I -- as a designer
possibly using this device *once* -- supposed to sort out all the
little details to come up with a robust design? Instead, folks
fall back on the "typical application" cited in the datasheet and
cut and paste these together to come up with their "system"/product.

I keep thinking about a "typical application" diagram for a CCD
camera some years ago. If you looked hard, you realized they
weren't using half of the camera's capability (i.e., throwing away
half the picture). What sort of a clown came up with *that*
as a way of SHOWCASING their company's product???

Often, the folks creating these documents are "new hires" -- so,
you're seeing all their mistakes. BUT THEY NEVER GO BACK AND
FIX THE DOCUMENTATION!

A "finished" design is usually outsourced to someone/somewhere
with the emphasis on low cost. The vendor *always* assures the
customer that they will produce a quality product.

The vendor always lies. Most of the data sheets are science fiction.
Production parts never resemble the engineering samples. Welcome to
life in hell.

Long ago, Fairchild Semi did just about everything they could to ruin
my project. In retaliation, I systematically designed their parts out
of the product line. I kept records and kept the lying sales droid up
to date on how much in sales I cost his employer. I don't recall the
total, but it was something like $2 million in the first year. One
would expect that someone would notice or care, but nothing ever
happened except for a visit by a well dressed incompetent that
delivered numerous promises and then disappeared.

Years ago, there was a magical concept called "second source".
Nowadays, you have *one* source for many of the key components in
a design. If they don't work (or, don't work AS ADVERTISED), your
sole remedy is to scrap your design and start over.

And *hope* the next SOLE SOURCE supplier you embrace is better!

All the while, hoping your boss and the marketing droids don't
roast your chestnuts for schedule slippage.

The end user is the root of the problem, IMO. They neither demand
quality nor are willing to pay for that quality.

Blame the victim? Much as I hate it, I agree with your assessment. I
suspect that simple economics is at the root of the problem. If you
can buy 4 junk contrivances for the price of one quality product, that
becomes a real temptation. With the economy in bad shape, going cheap
versus going quality is no longer an option.

The problem is independant of the state of the economy. I've
been bemoaning the fact that you can't *buy* quality, anymore.
It used to be true that, for a price, you could get a better
quality product. Now, it's a choice between crappy and crappier.

For example, we have been thinking about a new TV for a while.
We don't *watch* much broadcast/cable TV (literally, less than
an hour a day). OTOH, we *do* tend to watch movies, etc.

But, the mere idea of sorting through the myriad of LCD, plasma,
etc. offerings *hoping* to beat the odds on "quality"/reliability
is a daunting task. Instead, I'll look into fixing the 46"
plasma or the little ~20" LCD set. Meanwhile, living with the
27" CRT.

The same holds true of kitchen appliances. $1-3K for a new
refrigerator... AND IT IS EXPECTED TO (only) LAST *7* YEARS???
Are you *insane*???

No thanks, we'll keep the 17 year old icebox and wait for
"bisque" to come back into fashion...

With many devices,
they often don't even know how their device is *supposed* to
operate so don't feel emboldened to complain when it *doesn't*
work.

History will some day remember Microsoft Windoze as having trained the
population to accept mediocrity as normal. There are many things in
life where we simply have never seen quality. I never liked wine
because I always seem to end up drinking junk. My favored method of
cooking salmon produced dry rubbery fish, which I assumed was normal,
until I had some that was properly cooked. However, I got my start
with various Unix mutations, so I never got suckered into thinking
Windoze, MacOS, or OS/X were anything more than a bad imitation. If
you could give the GUM (great unwashed masses) a taste of quality, I'm
moderately sure they will demand better products.

I disagree. I think people are single-mindedly focused on price.
I don't think people are capable of making "value evaluations"
so they resort to a simple one: "cheaper is better (preferable)".

Or, they are all too willing to use the product's failure as an
EXCUSE to buy something new -- "reward" themself. I've seen this
"rationale" all too often.

Yeah, I have the problem myself. I have a 1989 vintage SCO Unix
3.2v4.2 server running in my office that refuses to die. I keep
wishing that something would fail, but it just keeps running. I had 9
months of uptime before I had to move things around and start over. I
keep wanting to replace it with a shiny new Linux box, but only after
it fails. My previous vehicle went for about 290,000 miles.

I get nasty looks every time I fix the washer or drier (both
approaching 20 years). "Why shoul dwe replace them? New ones
will break just as often (oftener?) *and* we'll have to pony
up $1K or more for the *privilege* of fixing them, instead!"

I drive a 1985 Monte Carlo and find a note on the windshield
every other week as someone is always looking to buy it from
me (different contact phone numbers so I am reasonably sure
these are different individuals).

I *updated* my Windows workstation to XP this past month.

Etc. I.e., I'm not "missing out" on anything by doing so.

Most "repairs" are board level swaps. And the prices of those
boards are ridiculous.

I'm still doing board level repairs, but I lose money on all of them.
The time and effort necessary to just get access to the PCB is often a
major problem. Products are just not designed to be repairable any

grin Spend some time repairing laptops if you *really* want
to "expand your vocabulary" (unfortunately, none of the words
you will learn will have more than four letters).

more. I just ripped apart a Roland D-5 junk keyboard synthesizer.
Wires and cables on all 4 sides of the sole PCB. No slack or service
loops anywhere, which means I can't run the board while inside the
unit (without building custom extension cables). So how much more
would it have cost to add a few inches of cable length? More than
Roland was willing to spend.

You would think that high end products would be more repairable, but
apparently not. I tore into an Icom IC-7000 radio. Street price
$1300. The mounting screws would either bind or strip the threads in
the soft aluminum casting. Many of the major components were buried
under layers of unrelated parts and pieces that had to tediously
removed. The driver hybrid was screwed to the casting with no access
holes through the PCB. A large number of leads had to be unsoldered
in order to gain access to the mounting screws. Basically, it's a
nice radio with absolutely no consideration for service and repair.

I have a high-end Sony digital amp that will end up in the
scrap heap RSN as disassembling it means unsoldering the
power transistors/FETs for all six audio channels from
the heatsink in order to work on the PCB.

[E.g. we have avoided purchasing an on-demand hot water heater
out of the *realization* that any failures will be "repaired"
by a PLUMBER. Makes about as much sense as having a carpenter
do your dental work!]

Out of curiosity, if not a plumber, whom would expect to hire to
repair your on-demand water heater? Some of my friends are getting

I would expect most failures to be in the microprocessor
control electronics for the water heater -- not the
few feet of copper pipe involved! What sort of skillset
do you imagine the average plumber has when it comes to
troubleshooting electronic systems? Wanna bet that
whatever "fails" is a 5c component?

*But*, I'll bet even more that the manufacturer (whomever)
won't provide *any* service information to me *or* the
plumber (since none of us could *possibly* understand
this INCREDIBLY HIGH TECH DEVICE :-/ ).

*Sell* me a detailed service manual for $200 (!!!) and
I'll consider the purchase. Otherwise, I'll buy a new
$300 water heater every 20 years and spend the money
I have saved from service calls on the "lower efficiency"
(you can buy a lot of natural gas for the price of a
service call!)

into solar contracting and are doing everything from wind to solar
electric, including some really complicating plumbing for the water

We've looked into solar hot water. Installed, they talk
like $3-5K. "Um, where's the savings, there? You want me to
give *you* all the money I am NOT going to have to give to the
gas company??? What's in it for *me*? (besides the higher
risk of a more complicated system -- electronics -- and more
hardware on the roof, etc.)"

heater. It's not really that difficult if one is willing to learn.
While I don't do well at plumbing, it's not unusual for me to do a
service call to repair a computah, and end up working on the printers,
network hardware, cell phones, PDA's, backup drives, UPS, game
machines, wireless, and all other manner of marginally related
hardware. While the losers specialize, those with a clue are picking
up adjacent technologies.

Exactly. The same is true with most consumer kit. Businesses are
even worse -- replacing their IT kit every 2-3 years *just* so
they can buy the latest buggy version of windows... (does that
secretary REALLY need a dual quad core 3GHz machine to type up
business correspondence??)

No. But they need it to run MS Office 2010, which requires Windoze 7,
which requires major horsepower. To a hardware geek (like me), the
whole thing seems backwards, but to the business owner, his
requirements are applications driven. He needs to run a short list of
major apps, they require a particular OS, and that requires a hardware
upgrade.

His problem is he is chasing something that intentionally
will never be attainable (THE final version of the software).

A friend who owns an insurance business was complaining
about being *forced* to upgrade OS to support the newer
version of the (EXPENSIVE) toolkit the business relies on.
This, in turn, required upgrading all of the workstation
hardware. Etc. For a small firm, the cost was still the
equivalent of two employees (salaries, overhead, benefits).

And, the most amusing aspect is that the "new toolkit"
doesn't give them any added capabilities! (i.e., you
have spent all this money -- plus training costs,
lost performance, etc. -- and not *gained* anything
in the process)

However, you are correct about one item. One of the major reasons to
upgrade is to obtain the latest release of the operating system in the
vain hope that it will have less bugs than its predecessor. Miracles
and bug free operating systems are possible, but unlikely. Still,
hope springs eternal.

Ditto. Though only where practical. E.g., I often treat color
printers as disposable -- when my supply of toner/ink runs out,
the printer makes a graceful exit (I refuse to spend $200-300
for a set of cartridges!)

Sigh. I buy the refill kits and replacement toner refill protection
reset chip on eBay for my various ancient color laser printers (HP
2500 and 2600). I can usually refill a cartridge 3 times before it's
no longer with the effort. Looking on eBay, clone cartridges are
about $30/ea while toner bottles are about $24/ea. That's quite a bit
cheaper than new cartridges.

I just rescue a printer with enough spare ink/toner. Print until
it is empty, then move on to another printer. (I don't print much
so I can get a LOT of life out of a printer rescue)

Get rid of it. If I haven't had a pressing enough need to fix something
that is broken, it goes out. Life's too short! :

Yeah, I know. I just can't get myself to throw away (recycle) the
junk. However, I'm doing it. Most of the antique machines are gone.
I'm keeping bits and pieces that might be useful, just in case. The
rest is sloooooowly going to the recycler. Sniff.

shrug Find someone who can use, fix or just plain *tinker*
with the stuff. I work hard at offloading things wherever
possible. Especially the *big* things (pinball machines,
arcade pieces, larger pieces of test equipment, etc.).

"Simplify" :