"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message .com...

Ed, you have misunderstood the argument, you veer here and there worse
than a dial-a-dado with a loose nut, and you either forget or
puposefully take out of context much of what I wrote.

snip
You brought up the fact that you are a only a teacher.

No, not out of context I didn't, and the fact that you leave that
context out leaves you arguing with someone else, not me.

My original post was a purely technical question, no personal info
included. Parenthetically I note that you have yet to contribute one
word towards it--makes you look like you're itching for a fight with
someone. In response to my orignial query, Uni and John give their
opinions, without reason, that I should abort my repair attempts and
spend more money on new items. Not bad advice per se, but not really
helpful either. Note the many helpful responses that followed later in
this thread, and in the rec.crafts.metalworking thread of the same
question. Anyway, I responded to Uni and John hoping to elicit some
response from them demonstrating that they have actual experience with
machining clamps holes, or that they have some other compelling reason
that I should abort the attempt. Either there is a way to repair them
or there isn't. Whether it is worth my time is not something they are
in a position to judge--that was the point in telling them that my
income is such that it *is* worth it, to me, to try to repair them. I
have assumed that the teaching profession is a commonplace for a not
decent income. Whether that is strictly true or not was not relevant
to the logic of my argument, it is a rhetorical commonplace (DAGS,
however and note the millions of provocative titles that
return).Pointing out the exception to the rule does not affect the
logic. Whether I'm a teacher or a journeyman or manager or
assembly-line worker or other tradesman, or even white collar with a
decent salary but yet am strechted thin enough to want to repair
rather than buy new ones, that is solely up to me--a personal question
of value.

For some reason you focus on "teacher" as if that were an important
part of the argument. I've no idea what you have against teachers
(apparently it's their decent pay in Conn., which, I assure you, has
nothing to do with me), but that has nothing to do with the logic of
my argument.

It is your chosen
profession so please don't use it as a crutch.

It is you, sir, who are trying to put a crutch on a healthy man. Get
thee hence, Procrustes.

There are a lot of people happy with their chosen profession that do
not make a lot of money. They don't bring it up as a whine that they
must save money on clamps.

The crux may lie in your definition of whine.

Let's assume you're happy with your profession. It doesn't matter how
much you make, as long as it is limited (represent that limit with an
"X"). Now let's assume you want a tool (any tool: to limit it to
clamps would be to go from generalization to the specific within the
same example, pretty bad logic, although you seem comfortable with it
above) whose price is above your limit (we'll call the tool's value
"Y"). So, you get a chance to buy a used and broken Y well within your
budget and certainly worthwhile if you can fix it.

Is this scenario so foreign to you? Man, I think most everyone on this
board has been in this scene.

OK, now someone tells you: "don't waste your time repairing a broken
Y, get a new Y. " You explain to him that your constraints (X)
prevent that; it would be more helpful if he could explain *why*
repairing Y is a waste of time. Nine times out of ten your friend is
simply not constrained by X, so it seems to him that anything short of
buying a new Y is not worth the time or effort. But not for you of
course.

Again I ask, is this such a strange scenario to you? More to the
point: when you explain to your friend your own constraints, is that
by your definition a "whine". If so,then mea culpa.

The way you immediately seized upon Conn. (secondary) teachers leads
me to believe that this is something personal for you. It has nothing
to do with me, and even less to do with the logic of my argument. I
could've said "I don't feel like I'm in a position to buy them new",
but that would NOT have changed the logic of my argument. I could've
elaborated, pointed out that I lost a lot in Hurricane Floyd, that my
baby girl was sick for years, that my wife is pregnant now. But that's
wasn't really germane to the argument. Was the fact that I was a
teacher? No. However, I trusted that a reference to being a teacher
with kids would resonate with my audience. I didn't count on you
ignoring my technical questions to grab your hobby-horse (teachers)
and swing it around, then take an exception (Conn. secondary teachers)
to try to disprove the rule.

Everyone
has priorities for their spending and thier allocationof free time.

Gee, that's my point, Ed.

snip
I said nothing of the kind. What I did say was that many teachers work less
days a year and make more money than those in other occupations.
But I
don't hear those guys poor mouthing.

No, you didn't say that. What you said was, "Around here (Connecticut)
most [teachers] make a better wage than tradesmen or mid level
managers and the guy on the assembly line.."

And do you really want to argue that tradesmen, managers, or
assembly-line workers don't "poor mouth"? I think I'll let that one
stand on it's own wobbly leg.

My
explanation, which you took for whine, was in answer to several
respondents who suggested (without reason I might add) that I scrap my
repair plans and just buy new clamps.

Well, sometimes that is the best way regardless of how much time you are
willing to expend on a project. Maybe these guys are offering good advice
based on their experiences.

And I'm willing to accept that possibility. But certainly not without
some better reason offered than "it's not worth your time", or "just
buy new clamps". I was asking them to offer those reasons when you
jumped in about teachers. And if you'll bother to read the subsequent
answers both here and in rec.crafts.metalworking, you'll see quite a
few opinions that offer good ideas about helping me repair those
clamps.

Perhaps I am mistaken in reading your post as snobby and ignorant. I
have seldom met a man for whom "the money is ... enough", regardless
the net worth.

I'm not sure where you get snobbery.

I take it as snobbery when someone tells me "it's not worth your time"
when they have no earthly idea what value I put on my time--or clamps
(not you directly but you quickly jumped to their rescue). I take it
as snobbery when someone assumes that teacher means secondary or that
all teachers must make what Conn. teachers make. I took it as snobbery
when you presumed to know that I make a respectable wage and was a
whiner--all couched in a cowardly generalization (from your first
post, and quite clearly with reference to me, "Sorry guys, but I hate
to see people making a respectable wage and whining").

If you think I'm ignorant that is your
opinion. Nothing wrong with fixing tools for the satisfaction of the job
well done, saving a few bucks, but just don't complain that you are doing it
because you are a teacher and don't have a lot of money.

Why not? Do you see those as exclusive arguments?

snip

Nothing wrong with not having a lot
of money, but don't use the teacher excuse. "Tis you that comes across as a
snob that way.

You lost me here. If I were in fact whining and making excuses about
being a teacher, then what you're describing is the opposite of
snobbery, something more like victim-mongering, no?

There are probably people that read this group that make a
very good income but don't have a lot of money because they are paying
medical expenses, supporting sick parents, or a million other things.

That, again, would be my point.

H.