On Oct 28, 1:46*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:11:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Oct 28, 10:54*am, Smitty Two wrote:
In article
,
wrote:
I'd be interested in seeing any hard facts about exactly how the Mall
of America, in it's entirety, is heated. * From what I've found from a
bit of googling, as claimed, it does not have a "central heating
system". * I've also seen it stated that it uses solar heating, ie
skylights for the "common areas". * But that leaves the majority of
the mall, ie ALL the store floor space, which is probably 90%+ of the
project. * How is that heated? * Do we know that each store does not
have it's own conventional heating system? * And whatever is heating
those stores, with wide open doors to the common area, a lot of the
common area heating is obviously coming from the stores.
You googled but you didn't read the Wikipedia page?
"Mall of America has a gross area of 4,200,000 sq ft (390,000 m2), with
2,500,000 sq ft (232,000 m2) available as retail space.[4]"
"Although the common areas are unheated, the individual stores do have
heating systems. [3]"
Note that the sources for those statements are listed.
Well, then there you have it. *Just as I suspected. * That'a a far cry
from the posted claim:
"Mall of America in Minnesota has no central heating plant. There is
spot heating in a few areas, such as the entrance, but the main mall,
located in the frozen land of Minnesota, doesn't require any help
other than solar and body heat of shoppers, to maintain comfort in
gigantic spaces with sky-high ceilings. "
If Wikipedia is correct, then the overwhelming source of heat for the
mall is the individual heating systems in the stores.
You are out of your skull. The wikipedia article doesn't say anything
of the kind.
I'll leave it for others to figure out who's out of their skull. But
if the measure of that is what Wikipedia says, then I don't think
Smitty or I are out of our skulls, because Wikipedia says exactly what
Smitty quoted:
"Although the common areas are unheated, the individual stores do have
heating systems. [3]"
The wikipedia article is poorly written and highly inaccurate.
OK, I admit Wikipedia may not the best source. Where is your source
that says the whole place, stores and all are heated by passive solar
and people? The Mall of America's own website has numerous facts
listed about the mall:
http://www.mallofamerica.com/about_m...and-conditions
8 acres of skylights
..57 miles walking distance around one level,
etc
And all they have to say about heating/cooling is this:
"70 degrees inside the mall, no matter if it is spring, summer, or
fall."
Seems rather odd, if in fact it's some solar energy miracle machine.
SOME of the stores have small auxilary heaters for spot heating of
certain areas of their stores which need additional heat at times.
That is a very far cry from "the overwhelming source of heat for the
mall is the individual heating systems in the stores". which is simply
wrong. I think it's easy to imagine that the store owners might object
to paying to heat the entire mall from their little in-store heaters.
What they object too, or concede to as conditions of leasing is
irrelevant. If, in fact, the stores have their own heating systems,
then they aren't heating the entire mall. They are heating their own
stores and some of the heat which escapes through the typical mall
open doors on stores goes into the common space. Now, I don't now
the ratio, but at malls I've been to, the overwhelming space is
devoted to retail floor space and the common area is a much smaller
percentage. So, if some heat goes out the open doors from all the
stores, it could play a significant role in heating the rest of the
mall, which is the common area that has no central heating unit. To
each store individually, it wouldn't be a huge economic burden to
leasing.
Sort of like trying to heat your neighborhood by leaving the windows
on your house open. Pretty expensive.
Not at all like that. It would be more like heating the common areas
of an apartment building with the heat if all tenants left their doors
open.
Overall, the mall has to run air conditioning, even during the winter,
when the place overheats.
The mall has over 8 ACRES of skylights that use the greenhouse effect
to provide most of the heat. Body heat from people is also a big
contributor.
Each person gives off about as much heat as a 100 watt incandescent
light bulb. A LOT of people go to that mall.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
And does the place freeze over when they leave at night? Or when they
are closed for holidays?
Like I said, I'd like to know more. Just provide a credible reference
that supports those claims. Especially that they have to run AC in
the winter. So far, what I've seen on the web seems to be very
selective and doesn't even come close to giving a picture of the total
situation.
Here's a reference that quotes a Mall of America spokesperson and it
agrees with Wikipedia:
http://wcco.com/consumer/heating.cos....2.638318.html
"In reality, we don't heat the mall," said Anna Long, a spokesperson
for the Mall of America. "There's no central heating system which is
incredible if you think about it."
Shoppers are heating up the mall. The body heat of 40 million
visitors each year is one of three heating sources. Sunshine from the
skylights, which are seven and a half acres of glass and miles of
artificial lights help too.
The mall is typically 72 degrees in the winter.
"There's a lot of math that went into it," Long said. "I can't
probably give you details you need on that, but I can assure you there
were rooms of research went into it so this could work."
Individual stores must have their own heating systems, but during
future renovations, experts may find a way to harness the extra heat
produced.
So, I'd say it depends on what your definition of "heating the mall"
is. To most people, to claim that you're not heating the mall would
mean the whole thing, including the stores which are the majority of
the square footage. To say we don't heat the common areas is
apparently the truth and that's a very different and less dramatic
story. To use your analogy, it would be like me claiming I don't need
to heat my house, when in fact, it's the sun room that doesn't have
the heating unit. One would also have to wonder how much of the
miracle heat gain in the winter is then lost to increased cooling
needs in the summer. Sunshine still comes in through all those 8
acres of skylights, does it not?