On Jun 30, 1:08*pm, ransley wrote:
On Jun 30, 11:25*am, wrote:
On Jun 30, 7:20*am, " wrote:
On Jun 29, 4:23*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
ransley wrote:
Every time, EVERY TIME, the government interferes in the general
marketplace, one of two things happens:
1. The general marketplace flows around the government obstruction,
or
2. The general marketplace is FUBAR.
In the instant case, the government mandating, encouraging, or
subsidizing NG, solar power, or foot-pedaled cars is eerily similar
to the government genuflecting over our soy-bean saviors in a
classic book whose title rhymes with "Mattress Bugged."
What is the alternative.
In my view, the government should step back from the energy business.
Consider the infrastructure for gasoline and diesel vehicles. 50,000 gas
stations didn't spring up overnight; they were constructed to meet the
demand. It would be likewise for other vehicle fuels: NG, Propane, electric,
nuclear, whatever. The simple fact is that the government can't create a
demand without penalizing the majority of folks - even if it IS for our own
good (according to our betters).
As for the moaning about what will happen when oil runs out, there's a war
in the middle east, etc., if you had asked a New Yorker in 1900 what would
transportation be like in a 100 years when the population increased
twenty-fold, he'd ask: 1) Where would we get all the horses? and 2) What
would we do with all the horse ****?
These potential problems, most problems, indeed, all problems, have a way of
working themselves out.
well the coming miid east war will crash and burn our economy thats
already very ill.........
can you imagine mid east oil cut off and gasoline at 10 or 12 bucks a
gallon?
people will be forced to buy gas to go to work and cut discretionary
spending to the bone, economic dump.
we have already seen this, as gasoline crept near 5 bucks a gallon our
current economic dump began.
well just imagine twice that or no gasoline at all.
Mr. Optimism speaks again. * *I can foresee a situation with a mid
east military action, eg Israel bombs Iran's nukes and does what the
UN and Obama, despite his apollogy tour, obviously can't. * But would
that result in a wider war? * Probably not, because most of the Arab
countries don't want Iran to have nukes either. * Would it result in
an oil embargo? * Unlikely. *The Arab oil countries are like junkies
and need our money just as bad as we need their oil. *They need cash
flow to support all their construction, industrialization, and govt
projects. Also, they are heavily invested in the West and the
resultant hair cut in their investment value would in effect be like
punishing themselves
this situation is yet another government failure brough to us by our
incompetent congress thats bought and sold by lobbyists.........
most farming is mechanized, in a crude oil shortage food prices will
skyrocket- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Food prices already skyrocketed because the government subsidies
diverted grains to ethanol production. * The prices of corn, soybeans,
tripled. *That didn't cause the world to come to an end. * It hardly
even had any effect on overall inflation.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Corn is about 3.60 a bushel I remeber in 1980s when it was around
3.20, its averaged 2.30-3.00 since 02 with only recent records years
ago, its not 300% higher now than average long term prices its not
near 7.50 like in 08. 3.60 is dirt cheap compared to long term
inflation.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Here's the monthly price charts of corn and soybeans:
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/CN/M
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/SB/M
From 2001 to 2006 corn averaged under $2.50 a bushel. When the
subsidies for biofuels kicked in, it rose to $7.50 by 2008. For the
last year and a a half, it's averaged $3.75, which is 50% higher than
it was before the ethanol subsidies. Soybeans averaged around $6.25
from 2001 to 2006. They skyrocketed to $16 in 2008 as the biofuel
subsidies increased demand. Currently, they are averaging around
$10. Besides the fact that both the ethanol and the biodiesel
produced from these crops costs more than either gasoline or diesel,
how much has the increase in these grain prices cost consumers from
increased prices of everything from beef to cornflakes?
This price impact and the effects it has had is not something
theoretical. Even charity organizations delivering food to third
world countries have been very public about the impact it is having on
less food being available.
And those price increases and money poured down the drain is in
addition to all the Govt subsidies that someone will have to pay for
somday. We're not paying for it now, because Obama is simply running
up $1Tril deficits for the next decade. The question is, for the
small benefit, it is worth the total cost in terms of higher food
prices, higher fuel prices, bigger deficits, rising food prices, and
less food so more people will starve in poor countries.