On Tue, 25 May 2010 16:42:10 -0500, flipper wrote:

On Tue, 25 May 2010 08:55:33 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 21:01:17 -0500, flipper wrote:

[snip]

One problem I see is the State is not (explicitly anyway) authorized
to delegate powers beyond what's stated in SEC. 133.

That, btw, is what Arizona is trying to skirt by making it also a
'State crime' but, as I've already mentioned, I have problems with
that.

[snip]

(1) Repeating myself, I don't give a flying fluck that you "have
problems with that".

I'm just discussing potential legal issues but you're beginning to
sound like Obama, who also doesn't give a flying fluck about the
Constitution and Law.

(2) _Read_ the law, it requires an unlawful act BEFORE interdiction.

The nature of the 'interdiction' has nothing to do with whether
Arizona can Constitutionally adjudicate immigration status.

(3) "Profiling" in traffic is impossible. Try it sometime.

'Profiling', or the lack thereof, has nothing to do with whether
Arizona can Constitutionally adjudicate immigration status.

(4) Presentation of a valid Driver's license (*) disallows questioning
about immigration status. (*) AZ uses hologram technology, and the
police carry a tool to verify that it's not forged.

The issue isn't 'when' you can 'question'; it's that Arizona has no
Constitutional authority to make the determination.

(5) If ICE doesn't cooperate, we'll create another law, try 'em, then
hand 'em off to Arpaio for a year. They'll not come back.

Strange as it may seem, Constitutional protections don't allow you to
make just any ole law you happen to feel like but, regardless, you
still have no Constitutional authority to adjudicate immigration
status. I.E. You can't send them to jail for being 'illegal' because
you have no Constitutional authority to adjudicate they're 'illegal'.

(6) Illegal population is already down _significantly_ and the law
hasn't even gone into effect yet... they're fleeing north to avoid
Arizona's law. I personally know people that say their yard workers
have fled. (My yard guy is a smart middle-aged white guy with several
secretarial service and publication corporations... but likes to work
outdoors :-)

I doubt the Court will consider "but it's working" a Constitutional
argument.


(7) Worst comes to worst, we'll bus 'em north. Will you "have
problems with that" ?:-)

Yes, because you have, again, simply missed the entire point which is
that I suspect the Court will rule Arizona has no legitimate means to
'criminalize' something it has no power to adjudicate and since you
can't legally determine immigration status, a Federal power, you have
nothing to 'convict' them of and, so, no legal grounds to "bus 'em
north."

Let me make an analogy. You may feel personally qualified to determine
the guilt or innocence of bank robbers but you are not granted the
power to do so by either the State or Federal Constitutions. And the
Court would likely not be impressed that, to skirt the lack of
Constitutional authority, you decided to simply write your own 'law',
making bank robbing also a 'Jim Thompson crime' (as Arizona did with
'illegal alien' also a 'state crime'), in an attempt to create a
Constitutionally nonexistent 'Jim Thompson jurisdiction' so you could
send out your own officers to 'question' suspects. And the arguments
you were 'good at it', that your questioning procedures were 'just and
fair', that your law is 'based on State law', that you're doing 'their
job better than they are' and that your law 'is working' would likely
not be persuasive either because the fact remains you are not granted
that power by either the State or Federal Constitutions.


Please try to remember I am not Obama, nor Holder, nor any of the
other loony tunes up there so if you want to argue with what I said
then argue with what I said and not what they said.


The Feds have seized powers which were supposed to be left to the
states.

If blow-hard Holder and crew try to stop AZ I suspect it'll simply
result in a lot of dead Mexicans. And nobody will know nuttin' ;-)

...Jim Thompson
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The only thing bipartisan in this country is hypocrisy