Wes wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Wes wrote:
"John R. Carroll" wrote:

Since the person carrying in the case of Arizona can not imbibe,
what difference is there in carrying in a bar or supermarket?

The shoppers aren't likely to be stupid drunk and like as not at
least a few of the bar patrons will be.


The bar patrons are not supposed to be stupid drunk.

There always will be Wes, at least on occasion.

Yes there will. Should the guy just minding his business having a
burger have his life at risk because some drunk decides to go off on
him?

That wasn't what I was talking about. The truth is that your life wasn't
likely at risk to start with.
The possibility of getting the **** kicked out of you is a lot different
than getting dead.




There are laws
against serving people that are clearly drunk. The person carrying
must be stone cold sober.

I've seen people with half a snootful try and snatch a cops gun away
from him. Something that started out as a joke ended up not being so
funny. There are also other circumstances that would seem less
stupid where a gun might come out that might seem perfectly
reasonable or legitimate. Get a job in any place liquor is served
and you'll get an eyeful of the effects and results even very modest
drinking can have on seemingly normal people. You could also just go
down to your local tavern for a beer and chat up the servers.

We are discussing concealed carry, not open carry.

So am I.
When there is a fair chance that everyone in the room is armed a person
might go for someone elses gun.
That's especially true when, for instance, some drunk is beating the ****
out of his wife or girlfriend and you have a brawl.


There are few decent places to get a meal that don't have a liquour
license in our economy. I believe this senario is the thrust of the
change in legislation.

That may well be.
I'm apt to think it's because of all of the Drug/Latin Gang kidnappings and
murders in Phoenix.



The chances of me visiting the local rowdy bar for a burger near
closing time if carrying there was legal is zero.

You can find bad behavior anywhere Wes, especially where you'd least think.
Don't believe me, ask around a little - start with your local Applebee's or
Chili's.


Insurance works on large numbers. If the actuarial data is
predictable, they will adjust their rates if necessary. I don't
think there will be any noticable change. Haven't seen blood in the
streets in Michigan due to CCW. Doubt it is happening anywhere else.

Michigan requires a permit with all that the proceedure entails. I thought
AZ was going to skip all of that.


I listen to Charles Heller's podcasts regularly. He is a founding
member of the Arizona citizens defense league. He has always seemed
to be a rational person on firearms issues.

That's the same thing we hear out here when it comes to ballot initiatives.
The result of those good intentions to address real issues frequently looks
a lot like Prop. 187.
Didn't last a month.

I don't have a lot of
worries on that but then I haven't been in Arizona since a deployment
at MCAS Yuma in the late 70's.

I'm not worried at all.
I've got egg noodles on the stove cooking in half a pound of butter and
enough beef broth that when it's done, all I'll have is a little juice left
and a big bunch of yummie noodles.
LOL

--
John R. Carroll