Dick Snyder wrote:

computer somehow, and then change the things I want. I have a friend who
uses Google Sketchup. He found it awkward to use and not that
sophisticated.

Sketchup is quite sophisticated and easy to use, once you learn how to
use it. Your friend either didn't spend the time to learn it (most
likely) or is using cad to design something way, way, way more
sophisticated than an "entertainment center" Having said that, cad
programs simply are not all that easy to learn, you must invest a good
bit of effort to learn how they work. Many people go to school to learn
this crap. Sketchup can be learned on line, no school needed.

I don't want to invest the money and a lot of learning time on a CAD
program

Money is a non-issue as Sketchup is free. Don't let the $600 for the
pro version fool you, the "basic" or free version does more, way more
than any common woodworker needs. And the pro version adds about nothing
useful for the average wood worker. You can export your drawings to
AutoCad, for example... If you have a $10,000 copy of AutoCad laying
around, you might need that ability.

unless I can get a recommendation on this group for a product that one of
you likes to use. Should I stick to my paper, pencil, and eraser?

I would guess of of now, more woodworkers use Sketchup as their design
program than any other software. This is really good because the
internet is chock full of free information on its use, as in detailed
tutorials, and components like swivel casters or full blown drawings of
things like entertainment centers.

First you take the word of someone else instead of making up your own mind
about a particular program; then you don't want to spend money, or your
time, on learning a skill to do what you are asking others to advise you
on?

Boy that is kind of hostile response.

Thats unusual for Swingman. He is the one to ask about Sketchup. He
uses it commercially to build everything from full kitchens to complete
houses. He has the pro version so he is the one that can, and will tell
you you probably don't need to spend any cash on that, but is the only
one I know of in this rec that has in depth experience with both the
free, and the pro version.

If I had taken the word of my friend,
I wouldn't have bothered with the post. I just don't want to invest a large
amount of time learning a tool if it can't do the job.

Most that use Sketchup have invested a lot of time learning it. Most
are self taught, so that makes it a bit of work, but, the internet is
full of good tutorials that will get you going fairly fast, IF you take
your time, and loose some of the preconceived notions that thwart
learning something as complicated (and free) as this, you will get there.

It's best to work through these tutorials step by step, pausing and
switching back and forth.

I know because I started, quit, started, quit 4 times before I figured
it out, and most of the problems were with my preconceptions of what a
free program would be able to do. Just about every limitation I
*thought* it had turned out to be wrong, the limitation was with me, not
sketchup.

The replies I have
seen so far indicate that it is worth my time to it out.

I've been around woodworking and computers for a very long time, and I
can emphatically say yes, it is worth the time. If you're building
kitchens cabinets, living room furniture, tables, chairs, entertainment
centers, computer stations, round stuff, square stuff or about anything
related to basic cabinetmaking, Sketchup is your tool for designing. It
can draw quickly to exact dimensions, show you pretty much what the
finished project will look like, print out pictures in as much detail as
you like and so on.

My big tip for you is if you think it should be able to do something,
and think it can't, you most likely need to learn more about it. Ask
here, or search the net, you eventually will learn it can do most
anything you need quickly and easily.

People like Leon and Swingman (and me) would not be wasting our time
telling people it is a great woodworkers tool if it wasn't. The
naysayers almost always have some combination of lack of knowledge,
investment in other pricey software, or some crazy, over the top needs
that most wood workers don't really have.

YouTube has a lot of good stuff for the beginner:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPHcn...eature=related

Go through some of that, and get familiar with the tools, learn some hot
keys and so on. Once OK with that, I liked this guys methods to build a
simple bookcase:
http://garykatz.blip.tv/file/2375765/

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com