On Mar 27, 7:58*pm, westom wrote:
On Mar 26, 6:35 pm, wrote:
Most of those same responsible companies also sell plug-in surge
protectors too. *Some recommend using them in conjunction with their
whole house surge protectors.
* And so would I. *If you are so misinformed as to spend up to $150
for an APC or Monster protector, well, GE sells the equivalent product
for $15.
Square the above statement with calling those manufacturers
"responsible". How can they be responsible if they are selling
dangerous and ineffective products?
* Meanwhile the IEEE puts numbers to this stuff. * A properly earthed
'whole house' protector is 99.5 to 99.9% protection. *That 'whole
house' protector required to even protect those ineffective plug-in
protectors. *Plug-in protectors that will magically absorb hundreds of
thousands of joules can create these scary pictures (and the fire
marshal who describes why the threat exists:
*http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
*http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
*http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
*http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol
*http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
*http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/les...tectorfire.htm
*http://www.pennsburgfireco.com/fullstory.php?58339
* To avoid that failure, the informed consumer earths one 'whole
house' protector for about $1 per protected appliance. *Then those $40
and $150 per appliance protectors for the additional 0.2% protection
might do something useful.
WoW ! Stop the presses. This is something new. Previously W had
always argued that plug-in surge protectors were totally useless or
actually dangerous because protection without a short direct
connection to earth ground was impossible. Now for the first time,
it seems protection is not impossible, but instead has an
effectiveness of .2%. At least that's a step in the right direction.
Also, obvioulsy you are grossly misinformed about plug-in surge
protectors because good ones can be had for a lot less than $40 to
$150 each, let alone per appliance. I have a $25 one sitting
behind my TV that has 6 pieces of electronics plugged into it. That
works out to $4 an appliance, not $40.
Now lets deal with the frightnening pictures. My W you have been
busy searching haven't you? Here's the most serious problem. How
many photos could one find of TVs, toasters, stereos or other common
appliances that also had failures that caused fires? How many plug-
in surge protectors are there that are in use? Probably in the
hundreds of millions. So, to find 6 that caught fire isn't something
extraordinary. Note that at least some of those are identified as
older ones that do not have thermal protection that all new ones
must. The rest we don't know how old they were or if they had thermal
protection, which they probably did not.
And these units are being indicted for having MOVs. Guess what else
has MOVs that are even smaller? Your TV, radio, stereo, dishwasher,
oven, etc. So, again, how is it that according to W if you put an
MOV inside a plug-in surge protector it's a fire hazard. But put a
smaller one inside a plastic radio and it becomes effective
protection?
Also notice that NONE of the links said that plug-in surge protectors
are ineffective, dangerous and should be avoided. Some of them even
talked about how to use them.
* But then the IEEE says what a properly earthed 'whole house'
protector does:
Yes and they also show plug-in surge protectors used too and recommend
them. You can't have it both ways.
Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes
from one stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per *6000 years ...
* Why spend $60 per appliance for a plug-in protector once the
effective solution is installed? *The 'whole house' protector is
required to even protect plug-in protectors. But that would not reap
obscene profits for the less responsible companies that only sell the
ineffective protector. *So myths are promoted.
Yes, like W's myth that these companies are "less responsible", while
we've shown him over and over again that the major electric gear
companies he calls "responsible" also sell them.
*Discussion of earth
ground avoided. *Insult posted by the usual nay sayers.
Yes, avoided indeed, because W can't explain the contradictions:
How is it that MOVs inside an appliance provide surge protection that
W says works, yet MOVs located in a plug-in are not effective?
How is it that MOVs inside a whole house surge protector are peachy
keen? They too are subject to the same failure modes after a surge
that is too large or after repeated smaller surges. Many of them are
also housed in plastic.
If a direct connection to earth ground is the only way to achieve
protection, how are electronics in airplanes protected?
* The informed homeowner installed a ‘whole house’ protector for about
$1 per protected appliance. *Then may spend tens of times more money
for a plug-in protector to add the maybe 0.2% additional protection so
that the surge maybe once every 6000 years might be further
constrained. *
Please provide a reference for those numbers, pulled out of thin
air. While you're at it, please provide a reference that agrees with
you that plug-in protectors are totally ineffective. Or is it now
that they are not totally ineffective, just .2% effective?
Also, perhaps you forgot, but I haven't. Still waiting for your link
to HD for their 50KA rated surge protector for less than $50.