On Mar 18, 8:49*am, Swingman wrote:
I used to worry about plywood being stolen overnight on a site, but
never shingles. It got so bad shortly after that email that shingles
were being stolen overnight, by the pallet load, from lumber yards ...
hell, they aren't even safe onsite, still bundled, on a roof, overnight
with no ladder onsite.
That is still one of the most amazing things left from the price
gouging by the shingle makers. I NEVER used to take a bundle back to
my vendors. The shingle bundles stayed under $15 for a long time for
3 tab. Well under. And with gas around $2.50 now for some time, it
was $10 round trip to return and $15 item, plus the time on the road,
the time at the vendor, and the their 15% restock fee.
You betcha I take any full bundles back now, including ANY stray piece
of material they will take back.
I have heard from guys down at the roof supply house that they have
heard of whole shingle stocked and dispersed on a roof (in a not-so-
remote location) being taken off the roof and spirited away in the
night. They take it all; shingles, felt, tin caps, ridge vent, valley
and eave strip.
When I see that the average shingle job of replacement has about $2500
in untraceable materials on it, I can see why.
I never would have believed it.
So, on the last house I finished in October I spec'ed a galvalume roof.
Pricey upfront, but that margin is narrowing with these shingle prices,
and metal is making more economic sense over the long haul, although it
would be a tough sell in some markets.
Impossible most places here. If we have our normal every five year
hail storm, the insurance companies don't depreciate the roofs much,
but with a 1% deductible, those clients may be looking at a $3K
minimum payout on their part to replace a dented roof.
That is, if the insurance company deems the amount of dents to be
damage. There are a lot of metal roofs that are "textured" from hail,
but not considered "damaged" around here.
AAMOF, I believe Leon has had a metal shingle roof on his house for
years ... and that boy makes his nickels count. 
A man after my own heart!
* A little healthy profiteering, you think?
You nailed it, Bubba! I've contended that from the beginning. Now that
they've started their little justification game for price increase, the
mere suspicion that underlying prices are trending upwards is enough
trigger the greed button.
I agree. At least me and my salesman for the roof materials are past
that. I don't want to hear it, and he doesn't want to tell it, so I
just ask when the next increase is coming.
I've got one lot left that we bought two years ago to build on. At this
point in time, and unless someone wants to buy it for a custom, there is
NO way in hell I'm going to build a spec in this market.
Don't blame you. I am one of those that think when the newest flood
of credit card defaults come by those who have lived off them for the
last 18 months arrive we will see this whole recession start again.
Add on top a new crop of foreclosures (which are on the increase
across the nation while new building goes on) which are starting to
rise geometrically, and there is almost certainly trouble ahead.
IOW, I'm basically dead in the water at the moment.
If I didn't do a lot of repairs and things like roofing and painting,
I would be screwed. Repair and maintenance brings a built in referral
business with it in good times, and I haven't advertised in so long I
can't remember. But that has all but dried up for me. I have enough
to keep busy, but all I am doing is paying bills.
No one I go see even asks about a bathroom redo or a kitchen remodel.
And with builders giving away 52" flat screen televisions with free
satellite for a year, a ton of upscale goodies and the max allowed as
cash contributions towards closing costs, it is almost impossible to
sell a kitchen job.
It's too easy to get a new home. Low rates, low prices, lots of
freebies from the bulders; what's not to like? They can get in a new
$250K house for less than a third of the cost of a new kitchen. For
less than a bath remodel.
All I can say is that I am happy I have work, and thank the good Lord
for high end, extensive repairs.
Oh yeah, and screw my vendors.
Robert