On Mar 4, 1:59*pm, wrote:
On Mar 4, 12:02*pm, Harry K wrote:





On Mar 4, 4:58*am, wrote:

On Mar 4, 12:39*am, Harry K wrote:

On Mar 3, 11:38*am, wrote:

On Mar 3, 1:21*pm, Douglas Johnson wrote:

wrote:
I'm quite amazed at how people want to just attribute this to driver
stupidity. *In the famous Lexus case the driver was an experienced CA
highway patrol officer who had taken special driving training as part
of his job. *I'd be pretty amazed if he didn't try to put the car in
neutral.

Now who is making assumptions? *The high performance street driving I took as a
Paramedic did not include any training about run away acceleration. *-- Doug

No, and I never assumed it did. * But don't you think a CA highway
patrol officer that has received a variety of training, not only in
driving, but in how to handle difficult, stressful, combat situations,
would have the presence of mind to shift into neutral? * Yet he did
not during a ride that lasted minutes? * *Or that not one of the 3
other people in the car thought of it? * *Is it possible they didn't
try sure. * But doesn't this bother you at all, or are you certain to
join Harry in calling the dead cop stupid?

Have a problem with pointing out the truth. *The FACT is that the
lexus can be shifted to neutrral under runaway conditions. *It has
been proven TWICE and both were cited in this thread.

Show us where what you claim above has been proven. * I've seen people
saying that a NORMAL functioning Lexus can be shifted into neutral.
I've seen people report that Toyota has said that the shift linkage is
only mechanical and it can be shifted into neutral while being
driven. * * Neither of those proves that it's true under runaway
conditions. *As I've said before, unless you know the design of the
car and what is linked to what, you are making assumptions unsupported
by the facts.

Take it from the top again and making it simple for you.

Thne cause of the cop/family death:

Runaway - Toyota
Deaths - incompetent driver.

Proof of shifting under runaway: *You must never watch the news or
read this thread very carefully.

1. *Guy gets runaway, *does the correct thing (short of shutting it
off) - repeatedly goes from drive to neutral and back, pulls into
dealers lot with it still happening. *All over the news and cited in
this thread.

It's not up to me to watch the news to prove your claims. * You
claimed specifically that a Lexus had been brought to a stop by
shifting into neutral during runaway conditions. * First, on the face
of it, this is actually impossible to do, because no one has been able
to duplicate the "runaway" condition. * So, the best you could be
referring to was that it's been proven that a Lexus identical to the
one driven by the CA highway patrol officer can be shifted into
neutral when traveling 120mph under full throttle. * That would be a
good start. *Link please.



2. *Guy shows how he can induce runaway. *Aslo shifts to neutral prior
to making a stop. * Aslo all over the news and cited in this thread.

Please point me to where this is in this long thread. *I've seen where
someone posted about an electronics guy causing full throttle by
fooling with some wires and that it did not set any fault code in the
computer. * I have not seen where he did that while driving and
shifted to neutral while going 120mph at full throttle. * Maybe I
missed something and you can show me where this was stated.



Feel free to continue distorting what I have said.

If you have a link supporting that Toyota has tested shifting a Lexus
into neutral on a track going at topspeed with full throttle, I'd be
very happy to see it.

Never claimed that I did but nice try.

I never claimed that you had said so. * But YOU keep insisting that
there is loads of evidence that a Lexus can be shifted into neutral
under runaway conditions. * All I'm asking for is a link to Toyota or
anyone else that has done a test that your believe at least closely
duplicates the runaway conditions.

Note: *That isn't an anecdotal report here that someone shifted their
car into neutral going at 50mph, etc.



That would be a start. * But then the other component would be that
you would also have to know by design that nothing in the tranny could
prevent it from being shifted, even if not designed to do so
intentionally. * I'd want to see exactly what prevents the shift lever
from moving into ANY position under any circumstances. *For example,
is there a lock that keeps it from moving into park when the car is
moving? * And what determines that, how the mechanism works, etc.
You would need to take apart the trannys from the wrecked cars and do
a complete forensic investigation of the components.

Now you are just being totally unreasonable. *How about proposing
somehow picking up a rock that blocks the shifter.

Why is it unreasonable to expect a forensic investigation of the key
components from key cars, like the CA highway patrol officers Lexus?
Just because you want to jump to conclusions, everyone else should
join you? * Is that what the NTSB does with a plane crash?



*I'm not saying it's likely all the cars could not be shifted, just
that if we jumped to conclusions without ALL the facts, a lot more
people would be dead today. * Why do you think it takes so long for
the NTSB to carefully analyze plane crashes instead of saying the
pilot was stupid, he should have been able to land the plane?

Really stretching there now.

How would you suggest to get to the bottom of it? *Just rely on your
speculation as opposed to scientific investigation?



Also note that I'm not saying how the cars are or are not designed or
what caused anything. *All I'm saying is that until more
investigations are done and more facts are established, it's premature
to be calling a dead CHP officer, among others, *stupid for not being
able to shift the car.

I repeat. *Since it has been proven it can be shifted and noone has
come up with even one example of a car that cannot be shifted...'

Just point us to a link where it has been proven that you can shift
that Lexus into neutral under runaway conditions, as you claim. * Of
course you can't because no one can duplicate the runaway conditions
exactly. * But I'll settle for a link to a test going at 100-120mph
under full throttle conditions.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Keep trying and digging yourself deeper. Anyone who claims that they
did _not_ see those news reports OR the cites to them in this thread
has no credibilityi.

Harry K