On Mar 4, 12:39*am, Harry K wrote:
On Mar 3, 11:38*am, wrote:





On Mar 3, 1:21*pm, Douglas Johnson wrote:

wrote:
I'm quite amazed at how people want to just attribute this to driver
stupidity. *In the famous Lexus case the driver was an experienced CA
highway patrol officer who had taken special driving training as part
of his job. *I'd be pretty amazed if he didn't try to put the car in
neutral.

Now who is making assumptions? *The high performance street driving I took as a
Paramedic did not include any training about run away acceleration. *-- Doug

No, and I never assumed it did. * But don't you think a CA highway
patrol officer that has received a variety of training, not only in
driving, but in how to handle difficult, stressful, combat situations,
would have the presence of mind to shift into neutral? * Yet he did
not during a ride that lasted minutes? * *Or that not one of the 3
other people in the car thought of it? * *Is it possible they didn't
try sure. * But doesn't this bother you at all, or are you certain to
join Harry in calling the dead cop stupid?

Have a problem with pointing out the truth. *The FACT is that the
lexus can be shifted to neutrral under runaway conditions. *It has
been proven TWICE and both were cited in this thread.


Show us where what you claim above has been proven. I've seen people
saying that a NORMAL functioning Lexus can be shifted into neutral.
I've seen people report that Toyota has said that the shift linkage is
only mechanical and it can be shifted into neutral while being
driven. Neither of those proves that it's true under runaway
conditions. As I've said before, unless you know the design of the
car and what is linked to what, you are making assumptions unsupported
by the facts.

If you have a link supporting that Toyota has tested shifting a Lexus
into neutral on a track going at topspeed with full throttle, I'd be
very happy to see it.

That would be a start. But then the other component would be that
you would also have to know by design that nothing in the tranny could
prevent it from being shifted, even if not designed to do so
intentionally. I'd want to see exactly what prevents the shift lever
from moving into ANY position under any circumstances. For example,
is there a lock that keeps it from moving into park when the car is
moving? And what determines that, how the mechanism works, etc.
You would need to take apart the trannys from the wrecked cars and do
a complete forensic investigation of the components.

I'm not saying it's likely all the cars could not be shifted, just
that if we jumped to conclusions without ALL the facts, a lot more
people would be dead today. Why do you think it takes so long for
the NTSB to carefully analyze plane crashes instead of saying the
pilot was stupid, he should have been able to land the plane?

Also note that I'm not saying how the cars are or are not designed or
what caused anything. All I'm saying is that until more
investigations are done and more facts are established, it's premature
to be calling a dead CHP officer, among others, stupid for not being
able to shift the car.






explain it in simple terms for simple people:

The cause of the runaway was Toyota's fault. *The deaths were due to
driver error.

Harry K- Hide quoted text -



Actually, your whole approach to the problem is remarkably similar to
Toyota's. For years they dismissed reports of both runaway
acceleration and wrecks as driver stupidity instead of doing a
complete investigation before jumping to conclusions.