On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 00:53:23 -0500, benick wrote:
"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:06:16 -0500, benick wrote:
"Michael Dobony" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 10:58:02 -0500, Jay-T wrote:
I have a few questions about choosing joint compound for taping
sheetrock
walls. I also have a question about "plaster".
For taping sheetrock walls:
I know there is "regular" pre-mixed and "lightweight" pre-mixed joint
compound that comes in 5-gallon buckets. I can easily see what the
prices
are for those products at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. I have used both of
these, so I have a pretty good idea of how they each work. One issue I
have
with them is that they take so long to dry between coats -- sometimes
24
hours, sometimes longer if they are used to fill thicker gaps. And,
they
both tend to shrink and crack when used on thicker gaps.
I also see bags of dry "setting type" joint compound with varying
setting
times such as 45, 90, etc. I can, of course, see the prices for each
bag.
But I can't tell how many bags it takes to mix up about the same amount
that
a 5 gallon bucket of pre-mixed joint compound contains -- so I can't
tell
how the dry-mix prices actually compare to the pre-mixed prices. Can
anyone
here give me an idea of how the two (dry-mix setting type and
pre-mixed)
compare in terms of cost for the same amount of product -- such as per
5
gallons of useable product?
And, aside from cost, has anyone decided to just go with the dry-mix
setting
type joint compounds even for large jobs simply because it dries and
can
be
re-coated in so much less time? Also, the dry-mix setting type product
doesn't seem to shrink when drying which is a plus for me. I don't
mind
doing the mixing etc., but I never saw a contractor using the dry-mix
product so I wonder if there are disadvantages or reasons why using the
dry-mix is not generally recommended for most taping jobs.
And, about "plaster":
I seem to recall that I used to be able to buy actual plaster at places
like
Home Depot and Lowes, but I don't see that there these days. And, I
thought
I used to be able to buy the "rough coat" ("brown coat") product that
goes
on underneath the finish coat of plaster. By "plaster", I mean the
actual
finish coat plaster that old time plasters use for plastering entire
walls.
I think the plaster was called "finishing plaster" or "finish coat
plaster"
and not Plaster of Paris, but I don't know for sure. And, the finish
coat
plaster dried fairly slowly but did not shrink and dried to a very hard
finish. Am I correct that there is a product out there somewhere that
is
called finish coat plaster, and that is not the same as Plaster of
Paris?
Any info or suggestions regarding all of the above would be
appreciated.
First off, if you put a fan on any of the types it will dry much faster.
I
have used mixes of both. My preferred method is to use the bucket mud
for
taping because it takes so long to do it by hand without a banjo (mud
and
tape applicator). Even with a banjo, you do not want to have to
thoroughly
clean between mixes, as would be required by the setting type. You do
NOT
mix a bucket at a time unless you can use it all up in about 15-20
minutes,
maximum working time for the 90 minute mud, and that is debatable.
The reason contractors do not use setting type, except around the
tub/shower, is because they do not want to have to thoroughly clean up
their mud boxes between coats. I know a crew that works with the boxed
redi-mix stuff and are done with an entire home in 2 days with flat
walls,
not the textured walls. The walls look fantastic!
You're full of **** clear to your ears...I guess you don't know many
QUALITY
contractors..If you can't use 3/4 of a pail of mud (ONE bag) in one hour
(90) you're a slacker and wouldn't last ONE day working for me unless
you're
90 minute mud is unworkable in 20 minutes max.
a rookie...Besides they make 210 if it is a cut up job or staging work
...Need me to convert that to hours for you ??? Ok I will , it's 3
HOURS....Try your little fan trick up here when it's zero out and you're
using space heaters to heat a LARGE house or it's spring , summer or fall
and it's been foggy or raining for a week or longer or humid as
hell....Might work in Arizona but not here in coastal New
England...Unless
it's a commercial job with long flat walls your banjos and boxes are
pretty
much useless the way they build homes now with all the cathedrals ,
angles
and curves and COMPLETELY useless doing patch work in a renovation..The
square box type ranches up here are all modulars now...I can't remember
the
last stick built ranch...LOL... .Besides the machines take atleast 2 or
more
to operate them so the man hours are about equal or WORSE...Atleast
compared
to a REAL taper..If they got the ENTIRE house done in 2 days I can
imagine
what it looks like...I've seen HACKS like that too...Made alot of money
fixing their **** work....HTH...
Typical abuser, adding unusual and unnamed circumstances to the mix. You
have never used the machines, nor seen them in action. In a 5-7 man crew
ONE person mixes mud and the rest are using the machines to apply mud and
tape. The machines only need ONE operator, not 2. This is a 2,000 sf
custom
built homes with cathedrals and boxed mud! You obviously never saw anyone
on stilts either! An entire room is taped in less than 1 hour. Some of
these guys are faster on stilts than you are on the ground!
You obviously never tried to clean setting type mud out of a machine. If
you don't get it cleaned up quick, you may have to throw out that $300
piece of equipment. Once set you have to scrape it out, ruining the tank.
Boxed mud cleans up easily, even after drying. The slightest amount of
leftover mud will totally ruin a finish.
Ya , I've used them back in the 80's..Boxes , banjos , bazokkas....We used
hammers and nails too but times change and better ways emerge...You should
try learning....You obviously don't know **** about working times with
setting type compounds or don't know how to mix it or both...Why in the
world would you use setting type compound for the 3rd or finish coat ?? It
is a skim coat that dries enough to go through in a few minutes anyway...
That is fine if you intend to spray. How many home owners doing small
repair jobs will be spraying the paint? Zero. I have worked with your
box/bucket mud and rolling the paint on washes off the feathering and
exposes the repair. Using setting type on
You
use the setting type for the first and second coat so you can keep working
without days of drying time...So explain how your boxes put on the MANY
boxes of Ultraflex you see in typical homes now with all the 45's ??? Or
coat the CASE of cornerbead...Or the curves ?? Eyebrow dormers are pretty
common as well..Round arches ??.How do you do them with a box ??
Then you know better than the professional crew that needs 4-5 hanging
crews to keep the mudders busy. You know better than them how to do a
$750,000 custom home with your 45's and arches and cathedrals. They were
done with the taping and first coat the first day with boxed mud.
I bet I've
spent more time on stilts then you've been alive....Started with wooden
ones...Used to use a pole sander too but with the invention of the Porter
Cable Power Sander I CHANGED....
You mean like this one?
http://www.cpoworkshop.com/sanders/d...ers/7800r.html
So what does that have to do with the efficient use of mud boxes that have
to be cleaned frequently if you use hot mud in them and cleaned as
thoroughly as a surgery room? You can use box/bucket mud in them all day
long and only clean them when you are done with the job. Why do you need
two people dedicated to one box? Don't you know how to use them? One man
mixes mud for everybody. Two to three men are running banjos/bazookas. One
man is going over the tape joints with a knife. One man uses the corner
tool to clean up the corners. Then things change, everybody except the
mixer gets narrow tape box to cover the tape. Then it's lunch time. What is
wrong with your crew that you need more people to run one box?
We typically rough in (1st coat) everything
with Durabond 210 and use Easysand 90 for second coating in bathrooms ,
basements and garages or other "dark" rooms and regular mud everywhere else
unless weather conditions dictate otherwise.Renovations , patching and
repairing we use all setting type except the finish coat..Repairing and
skimming old plaster walls and ceilings we use all setting type except for
the finish coat as well...Really small additions or patch jobs , ect. we use
45...The point being is keeping the job moving forward without cutting
corners and doing a hack job..
What method do you use to apply the hot mud? How often do you clean your
equipment? You cannot let the old mud dry on your gear or it will first
ruin the next area and be a total pain to clean off as it will not wash off
with water.
There is nothing that ****es the boss off more
than having a worker call and tell him they had to leave early or couldn't
work due to wet mud..****es the contractor off as well...I suppose you would
just 2nd coat wet tape too ??..
They are done in 2 days with a 2.000 sf home. Whay would a contractor be
mad at that?
Or coat wet corner bead and run the corners
with the other side still wet as well ??In a house that size(300+or- boards)
it would be a 2 taper job...One upstairs and one down..Done in 2 weeks or
less depending on how much staging work there is...Absolutely no call backs
for cracks...
They never got called back for cracks unless the hanging crew messed up on
the doorways and window openings. My boss and I had to go back over such a
crew's work once. They put joints above the corners of several doors and
windows. The other 3 man crew spent a week on that smaller house. My boss
and I did 2,000 sf homes with 3 car garages in 4 days and did a quality
job. We were the finisher's favorite crew. He wanted me to continue when my
boss quit to go to college. These houses sold for a minimum of $250,000 and
we were never out of work for more than a day or 2 a month waiting on
carpenter crews or inspections.
But then again most of our work is high end homes on the coast
where quality really matters....Like I said the small ranches and salt boxes
are almost all modular now..The boxes and banjos do have there place like I
said..Like in large commercial jobs with long walls with hundreds of stand
ups where quality doesn't mean as much...You can really fly...