On Feb 15, 11:15*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , wrote:
[...]

The second big omission is that you always hear the media gushing over
this cars as "zero emissions". * *Which is true only if you
conveniently ignore that all this power still has to be generated
someplace. *In some small amount of cases today, it could be green, eg
where the car is charged at night using excess hydroelectric. * But
for most of the country, the power today still has to come from
conventional fuels and all you're doing is moving the pollution from
one place to another. *

Moving the pollution from one place to another is, in itself, a laudable goal;
seen what the air looks like in LA or Chicago recently?

And how politically feasible do you think it's going to be to do
that? What area wants to receive the pollution to help clean the air
for someplace else? Especially in todays political climate, that is
a non-starter.




And possible introducing more, as I'm not sure
what the total energy/emissions balance looks like, ie burning a
gallon of gasoline in a car vs burning say coal to generate the
electricity, then sending it over a transmission system with losses,
etc.

You're overlooking a few points in favor of the electric cars. First off, by
concentrating the emissions at the power plant, the air quality in most major
cities will be tremendously improved. Second, again by concentrating the
emissions in one place, it's easier to scrub them; one power plant producing
the electricity to power a million electric cars will likely produce much less
pollution than a million cars with internal combustion engines. Third, one
large power plant has the potential for economies of scale that a million
point sources lack. Fourth, and perhaps most important, the internal
combustion engine is terribly inefficient, since it derives all its power from
the mechanical energy of the expanding exhaust gases and wastes all of the
heat; coal-fired power plants are *far* more efficient.


I never overlooked ANY of that. All I said was that I have yet to
see an unbiased analysis of the TOTAL cost of driving electric
cars. What the future energy sources to make the electric are going
to be, the cost of the fuels, new clean plants, where you can build
them, distribution system upgrades, etc. If you have an objective
study, I'd be happy to look at it.

As a small example of what you are dealing with, it's already clear
that with the NIMBY mentality, it's unlikely you're going to find
areas that are willing to be the recepients of pollution to lessen the
pollution for people in nyc, la, etc. And it's even a regional
issue. Much of the pollution here in NJ is due to coal fired plants
in Ohio and the prevailing winds. Above you mention that coal-
fired plants are far more efficient. If you believe we are going to
have to reduce CO2 emissions going forward, which clearly is the
intent right now, then any new coal plants are going to be extremely
expensive compared to what we have today. Think carbon
sequestration.