"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
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"Stu Fields" wrote in message
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"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
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"Stu Fields" wrote in message
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"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
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"Stu Fields" wrote in message
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"cavelamb" wrote in message
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Ed Huntress wrote:
I miss sailing, too, even though my Typhoon had a hull speed of
4.7 knots. g
Get your sagging asymmetrical ass up off that chair and go sail!
There is a real simple solution to that major problem, Ed.
http://www.sailingtexas.com/scapedory18108.html
Pay for a U-Haul and I'd even offer to bring her to you!
Very interesting! That's the same year I bought mine. And the
current reduced price is almost exactly what I paid for it,
although my price included a Seagull Silver Century outboard, but
no trailer. I kept her in the water.
I had a Seagull 5 horse once upon a time.
Seriously interesting little motors.
Damned thing had a five blade prop and would push a freighter, given
time to accelerate. Not very fast, but a good solid shove.
This one has been on Sailing Texas for over a year - maybe two.
I don't know if that means he's asking too much and won't be
reasonable?
Or ? But she sure looks sweet to me...
I don't know what the current prices are. Cape Dories are expensive
boats. But you know the story with old fiberglass boats: their
lifetime is related to hull thickness raised to some positive
exponent: twice as thick, lasts 10 times as long, or something like
that. My dad's Boston Whaler Nausset, for example, which he bought
in 1962 and used heavily, was just as solid when he sold it in
1984. And Cape Dories are heavily built -- like the Boston Whalers
of sailboats.
Prices, on old boats like this mainly depend on condition and
desire.
The nicer it is, and the more you want it, the more it is likely to
cost.
Basically whatever the buyer and seller can agree on.
(break)
Part of that is progress.
Back when they first started building hulls with glass, nobody knew
much
about how it would work out. They heavily over built to over
compensate.
Some of those 60s and 70s boats probably qualify as ice breakers. 
As the designers gained experience, they reduced the laminate
schedule to
reduce cost and weight. Some, like McGregor, took the idea to
extreme and
wound up at the bottom of the quality list.
Fiberglass tends to get strong enough to carry the loads long before
it get
stiff enough to retain its shape. And, as you pointed out, flexure
leads
to fatigue, and to eventual failure.
Don't understand the fatigue of fiberglass. That is a topic of a
short discussion that I had with a Senior composite analyst that
works for Rutan's Scaled Composites. He wasn't too sure about the
fatigue properties.
It's been described by composites experts as an effect that results
from combining polyester resin and glass. The adhesive properties of
polyester are very poor -- much worse than most adhesives, and not in
the same league with epoxy, or even vinylester (which falls roughly
between the two). If a polyester/glass panel is thin or very flat and
subject to flexing, as it is in cheap boats, the adhesion
progressively gives way and the panel loses its stiffness. They try to
compensate for this with the chrome finish on good fiberlass cloth,
but that's not a complete solution. And in mass-produced boats, where
they tend to go for a lot of "value engineering," they typically push
the envelope in terms of how much styrene they put in the polyester.
That makes the life of a hull even shorter.
Add to that the fact that polyester is not very water-resistant
(especially when its stretched with a lot of styrene), and the fact
that water can wick along individual glass fibers when the bonds start
to break down between the fibers and the polyester. A thin-hulled boat
will get "soft" as a result of all these factors. It isn't very
noticeable in some boats, particularly those that have strong compound
curves, but a modern sailboat with hard bilges and large flat areas
will show the effect eventually. You notice a progressive tendency for
the hull to "oilcan" as you go over waves in a head sea. That's
usually the first sign.
On another cast, there were two 36' McGregor Catamarans in the
Marshall Islands when we arrived in 86. These boats were not new.
To my knowledge both still float. They were basically unsinkable and
had instructions for self righting....which was demonstrated in calm
water in which I couldn't figure out why you would turn the boat over
in the first place... The old argument that their most stable state
was inverted while true, beat the mono hulls who's most stable state
was on the bottom.
However, the rigging was definitely not first class as we found out
when we were dismasted. Both the mast and shrouds needed and got an
up grade. Boat could sleep up to 8 people below decks if they were in
groups of 4 sets of Siamese twins.
Stu more than 1,000 miles of out of sight of land sailing on the
Cat.
Cheap cruising sailboats tend to show their weaknesses under extreme
conditions. Hardware usually goes first: chainplates pop out; shrouds
tear out at the eye fittings; gudgeons and pintles break; cleats snap
off. A yacht appraiser with blue-water experience could go through a
boat and in twenty minutes produce a list of what's going to fail
under harsh conditions.
But to be fair, very few sailboats are ever sailed in blue water, and
even fewer are subject to harsh conditions. If you want a daysailer or
weekender to putter around in nice weather, a lightly-built boat may
be your best buy. Just don't sail it to Tahiti. g
--
Ed Huntress
Yep. Our dis-masting occurred because of a SS toggle that had a crack
that started inside the saddle portion and was not detected in a
scrubbing and clean up a few weeks before. We went to bronze larger
toggles and up one size on all rigging. No problems after that. While
the Cat was sold as a coastal cruiser, we were able to make some
passages by paying attention to the speed and waves. For some wave
conditions like those found in the "Majuro Washing Machine" 8' waves
100' apart, the speed had to be reduced to under 10kts to avoid digging
in one of the bows and risking pitch poling. It did sail flat though.
No rolls. It took a little time to get used to the boat accelerating
in gusts rather than heeling like our old fixed keel monohull.
I've still got a box full of SS bolts, tangs and misc fittings parts of
winches etc. Maybe someday I'll get done with the helicopters and go
back to something more tranquil...
Stu
I envy you that trip, Stu. It sounds like great fun.
Regarding stainless on a sailboat, I'm wary of it for any application
where it's continually stressed, as in standing rigging, especially if
the bits and pieces are bent or take a sharp bending load. Most
stainless is subject to stress-corrosion cracking. Unless you can be
sure you're dealing with 316, it's a risk.
--
Ed Huntress
Yes in the Marshal Island where we sailed, the 304 SS would corrode... It
was 316SS or nothing. The constant warm salty air would corrode
Pyrex....
If you look at the pictures on the back of Yachting and Sailing
magazines, we did that every week-end for several years. We chartered
our boat to different visitors at rates varying from: You furnish the
beer, to standard charter rates. The scuba diving and snorkeling was so
good that we considered Hawaii second class. We had sharks on 95% of the
dives and learned to chase them with a camera. They didn't like our
agressive behavior very much. This was true even at night.
I'm not sure why we came back....
Stu
Man, that sounds like the life I had planned for myself at age 20. You
must have some great memories.
--
Ed Huntress
Yeah we do. While we were doing it we would occasionally send a long
account back to our friends in the States. They suggested we make a book
out of it, but thats too much like work.
On another tack, with your experience and ability to write, the Asian
Development Bank has been hiring consultants to do various tasks in several
south sea island countries. They tagged me to write the Disaster Manual for
the Marshalls. When they asked me for my salary requirement, I dug up a
number that I thought was ridiculous because I didn't want to do the job.
They accepted. I found out later that I was the lowest paid consultant. I'm
sure that you could probably pickup a position. I was 55 at the time.
stu