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Bud--

wrote:
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:03:03 -0500, bud--
wrote:

bob haller wrote:
On Oct 14, 11:10?am, Douglas Johnson wrote:
bob haller wrote:

You can't win on technical issues so you attack?
--
bud---
ATTACK take a look its you who attacked...........
"your [sic] probably defending K&T because your [sic] too cheap to
replace yours"

Why are your posts so stupid?
Haven't you read I have never had K&T?
You can't win on technical issues so you attack?

bud asked if I knew what a master
electrician was, and has refused to answer what his credentials
are.........
Already answered. You acknowledged my answer. Now you are too stupid to
know.

Just like you were too stupid to figure out that your source does not
agree with you.
Why does your source say "properly installed and unaltered K&T wiring is
not an inherent fire hazard"? Is your source wrong or are you wrong?
You pointed at the "photos of hacked K&T wiring" in your source. Why
weren't most of the photos identified as involving K&T wiring? Couldn't
your source, which was about K&T wiring, find hacked K&T wiring?
Why does your source insulate over K&T wiring? Aren't they as smart as
you are? Apparently your state, PA, allows insulating over K&T. Why is
that? Don't they listen to you?

my poistion is backed by the NEC, his just a few limited areas
Why was the NEC change not based on data indicating a problem?
Why do many jurisdictions, including at least 5 whole states, allow
insulating K&T wiring? Why does your state, PA, also allow insulating
over K&T (as is done by your source)? Aren't they as smart as you are?

The "Illinois report" was to a state agency about the safety of K&T
wiring. Why couldn't the report find significant numbers of house with
K&T wiring and insulation where the insulation caused a fire? Weren't
the authors as smart as you are? Where is the data about fires in the
huge number of K&T houses that have been insulated?

Mike Holt is well known in electrical circles. In his discussion forums
why don't electricians share your paranoia about K&T? Are they stupid?
Why do they just think K&T is a wiring method that just has to follow
NEC rules?

Do you really not know what a master electrician is?

My mother's house was "properly rewired" over 50 years ago. The
electricians just re-fed the K&T.
Does the NEC allow that now? (Hint: I have answered that numerous times.)

50 years ago that WAS properly rewired. Today it falls somewhat short.

It is refreshing to know there are still people that use a Ouija board.
The rewire included a couple kitchen circuits and a laundry circuit,
amongst other additions.

If PROPERLY done for lighting circuits it is most likely still safe.
If new circuits are tied into the panel directly, with no connection
to the K&T they are safe.

The insurance companies don't know if it was done correctly

Insurance companies don't know if modifications to old 2-wire tar/paper
jacketed Romex was done correctly either.

- so many
say NO K&T and others require certification by a qualified electrician
that any remaining K&T is properly connected and in safe condition.
It only makes sense on the part of the insurance companies, as they
are extremely RISK AVERSE.

Still missing - the actuarial data that shows K&T is a significantly
larger problem that other older wiring. What has been shown is that an
insurance company, when challenged, did not provide that data and was
ordered to provide insurance. And that State Farm had a surcharge in MN
that it was ordered to drop because it had no substantiating data.

How about the PA houses (perhaps hallerb's) where inspection was never
required.
Should an insurance company insure them?
Are they safer than a house with K&T where work was inspected?

A house wired with K&T in the '20s, supporting today's normal
life-style, is NOT adequate, and NOT safe.

How many houses are there with a 30A 120V service? You will probably
have to look real hard to find a K&T house that has not had major
additions. (It should probably be on the national registry of historic
buildings.)

A house with a new modern service and additional circuits added
properly, with unmolested K&T handling all the "modern" loads and only
normal lighting supported by K&T is ain all likelihood safe - BUT
How many houses wired with K&T in the '20s (or even up to the early
'40s) has "unmolested K&T wiring" with properly installed modern
wiring updates???

How many houses have "unmolested 2-wire tar/paper jacketed Romex".
Where is the data?

Not too many

Ouija board again?
Maybe you borrowed hallerb's?

- and when going to the work of installing the extra
required modern wiring, the work required to replace the K&T circuits
is very small potatoes in the grand sceme of things.

It can be very large potatoes depending on the construction and what is
being done. For instance replacing ceiling lights and wall switches on a
1st floor when there is a 2nd floor is a major job. (This is obvious in
a recent question from blueman.)

--
bud--