In message ,
Bambleweeny57 writes:
On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:07:12 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:


Wind power is intermittent. You can't call on it when demand needs it.

I continue to fail to see why that keeps being presented as a reason not
to use it when it _is_ there. Yes, you need 100% (or almost 100%)
alternative capacity for when the wind isn't blowing, so anyone who
_relies_ on wind is just plain daft

It's largely a matter of economics...

If you build a conventional power station you expect to get a return on
your investment based on running your generators for, plucking a figure
out of the air, 80% of the time.

If you're building backup for a wind turbine then that 80% will drop
dramatically. If it doesn't then there is no point in using wind in the
first place. But then that means it'll take much longer before the
building the backup becomes a profitable exercise. It may even get to the
point where you don't earn all your outlay back in the lifetime of the
backup itself and the only way for the backup generator to make a profit
is to essentially have it subsidised by the taxpayer.

I see where you're going, and will have to admit that _for a cold start_
(no capacity of any sort), you _might_ have a point (though see below).

However, we're not starting from a zero point - we already _have_ the
"backup" capacity. Granted, lots of it is coming to the end of its life,
especially nuclear (with the standards as currently enforced, anyway)
....

You can have any mix of power you like... as long as you're prepared to
accept & pay for the results.
[]
Indeed. (All power is free - you just have to pay someone to get at it -
such as dig it up.) But I still suspect that - for the amount where it
is likely to be generating for a significant proportion of the time,
which for the UK is likely to be a small amount of the total consumption
- it _is_ worth building at least _some_ windmills (and that "some"
equates to "more than we have so far"). At present levels of
consumption, I'd be surprised if it ever represents a significant
percentage of the whole, but I don't think that's a reason to not build
_any_. (And, strangely, the perfectly valid point that backup capacity
has to be available is _helped_ by the smallness of the proportion: you
_won't_ have _lots_ of capacity sitting idle, since the wind isn't going
to provide a _lot_ of the capacity anyway, unlike say in Denmark.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for ludicrously
outdated thoughts on PCs. **

"Forget computers; it's hard enough getting humans to pass the Turing test."
- David Bedno