Tim S wrote:
dennis@home coughed up some electrons that declared:
"Max Demian" wrote in message
...
"Owain" wrote in message
...
On 16 Sep, 23:42, "Max Demian" wrote:
Energy is neither created nor destroyed
Only according to classical physics.
Except in nuclear power stations and in stars.
And springs and batteries and everything else that stores energy.
(Not that
you can measure the differences in mass.)

Surely if you're storing energy you're not creating or destroying
it?

Maybe, but it violates the conservation of mass.

You can store energy without converting it to mass.
Chemical (batteries), and mechanical (springs) methods store energy
without converting it to mass.

Phone call for you - some bloke called Albert...

Seriously - yes, there is a mass increase.

No, sorry, Albert says that's wrong.

You'd be hard pushed to measure it though.

Indeed, but Albert thinks that's because it doesn't happen.


eg, a 60Ah 12V car battery might be claimed to store 60*3600*12
joules of useful energy. That's about 2.6MJ

That is equivalent to a mass of 2.88E-11 kg, or 28.8 nanogrammes

Albert says he's not very good at maths but will take your word for it.
However, he's quite good at logic, and he says that you're barking mad if
you think the energy is stored as an increase in mass.

Cheers

Oh, he's hung up now.