On Sep 8, 6:15*pm, "RBM" wrote:
"JayTKR" wrote in message
...
"RBM" wrote in message
...
"stryped" wrote in message
....
On Sep 8, 3:53 pm, "RBM" wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message
....
On Sep 8, 2:25 pm, "John Grabowski" wrote:
As you know I am working on wiring a detached garage/shop. I am a
newbie. I have attached a link to my work thus far. I am having a
little trouble figuring out how to route everything. Any helpful
advice is appreciated.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42254706@N03/
*I usually use metal boxes in garages due to the firewall
requirement.
You
should not install your wiring devices until after the drywall is
installed.
The routing of the cable seems fine except that Romex cannot extend
over
four feet without being supported. If the space above the ceiling is
going
to be an accessible attic space you will need to install running
boards
along side of your cables. Throw in a couple of nailplates in the
corners
to protect the cable from nails.
I see that you are using 12/2 for lighting. It sounds like overkill.
Did
you actually figure out what your lighting load is going to be?
There is
no
need for a GFCI circuit breaker for your outdoor lighting however
your
garage receptacles are required to be GFCI protected including the
one
on
the ceiling. A GFCI receptacle is cheaper than a GFCI circuit
breaker
and
can protect receptacles downstream.
Since you seem to be using all 12/2 be mindful of the cubic inch
capacity
of
your boxes. Each wiring device uses the equivalent of two conductors
and
must be considered when calculating your total number of wires in a
box.
Since this probably a subpanel your ground wires in the circuit
breaker
panel need to go onto the ground bar and not the neutral bar.
Grounds
and
neutrals are kept separate in a subpanel. You will need to run four
conductors to feed your subpanel. Remove the green bonding screw
from
the
neutral bar. I think that a main breaker is required in the panel
for
this
installation, but I would need to look it up to be sure. If that two
pole
breaker in the lower left is going to be your main it will need to
be
held
down with a screw or clamp. Check the panel labeling for the part
number
for this.
My panel is "upside down" The instructions said to mount it this way
if the panel will be "bottom fed". Which mine will. SO the ground buss
is on the left and the neutral bus is on the right.
*The neutral buss is on each side and you currently have your ground
wires
connected to the left side neutral bar. You are supposed to connect
each
neutral below the corresponding circuit breaker for easy
identification.
The ground bar is that small little screw terminal strip on the left
set
back from the neutral bar. You can probably install at least two wires
under
each screw on the ground bar which is why it is so small. The panel
labeling will tell you the number of wires per screw allowed. The
label
may
also have a diagram of the interior of the panel confirming the
neutral
bar
on each side.
Please tell me that you will be having this work inspected.- Hide
quoted
text -
- Show quoted text -
I will double check but the bank on the right says "neutral" and the
one on the left says "ground". I plan on using this as a garage and
hobby shop. I was told I could have a maximum of 13 outlets on one
circuit so I figured 11 was ok. I figured it would be rare to run more
than one thing at a time.
Sounds like your adviser is mistaking commercial outlet requirements for
residential outlet requirements. There is no minimum or maximum amount
of
outlets per circuit. As John Grabowski points out, there is something
peculiar about the neutral buss. I recognize the panel as a GE brand,
and
there should be a bridge connecting the two neutral busses, which I
don't
see.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The person that advised me was the electrical inspector. He said to
figure 1.5 amps per outlet. 1.5 x 13 = 19.5 amps. (all mine are 20 amp
circuts.
i will double check when I get home but I really belive I only have
one neutral buss and the other is ground. This is a 100 amp GE panel
with 100 amp main breaker. Bought at Lowes.
It would be odd, for the panel to be built with a ground buss off to the
side, as yours is, and another ground "only" buss set on insulators, as
yours is. As I said, that panel comes with a bridge, that connects both
sides of the neutral buss together. It's entirely possible that it was
tampered with. Your electrical inspectors recommendation of figuring 1..5
amps per receptacle is fine, and I would figure fewer outlets per circuit
in your situation, however that is a commercial calculation, not
residential.
RBM,
I know you are an expert on this stuff. *When I am reading any threads on
this forum that involve electricity, I always look for your replies to see
what the real answer is. *I also know that I am NOT an expert on any of
this, and I have just been trying to learn what I can over the past few
months.
But, I did just recently have two panels put in that are now subpanels,
but which eventually will become main panels when I have new electric
service put in. *What I ended up doing was buy two main panels but set
them up as sub panels for now. *The main panels did come with a bridge
that connects both sides of the neutral buss together. *But there were
instructions that said the main panel could be used as a sub panel by
first taking out the bridge, and then tightening down a screw all the way
on one of the busses that is on insulators so that buss will then be
bonded to the panel itself. That made that buss a ground buss, while the
other buss remained as a neutral buss that is mounted on insulators and is
not bonded to the panel. According to the instructions, the other way to
do this would be what you said -- both neutrals are insulated from the
panel box and connected together with the bar in place, and then a
separate grounding bar is added and mounted to the panel box. *With this
second option, the screw I mentioned earlier is left NOT tightened down,
and that buss remains insulated from the panel box.
So, as far as I can tell, the panels are set up to allow either approach
to be used when using that main panel as a sub panel. *And, I think the OP
may have his panel set up like the first option (with one buss bonded to
the panel box and used as a ground buss, and the other buss remaining
insulated and used as a neutral buss), and no bar would be in place
connecting the two busses together.
Thank you for the compliment. There are a number of very sharp folks on this
newsgroup, and in all honesty, I come here to learn. To your point, you are
absolutely correct. I've done exactly what you describe on numerous
occasions. In this case, it appears that the "grounding" buss came installed
in the panel, in which case I would have left the neutral buss alone, and I
didn't get the impression that the OP was the one that removed the bridge..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I verified tonight what the panel said. Left says 'grounding strap",
right says "neutral strap". usint a continuity meter, left bank has
continuity to the enclosure. Netral strap on the right does not.
Instructions call that little bar to the very left "addition"
grounding connections.
By the way, I plan on having 2 240 volt circuits, one for an air
compressor one for a lincol welder "buz box". I was going to make the
compressor a 30 amp circuit with 20-3 wire and the welder a 50 amp
circuit with 6 guage. Does it matter if I have bothe these breakers on
the same buss as the 100 amp main breaker or would that be bad
practice to have alot of voltage on one bank compred to the other?
Also, do I need to have these outlets a certain distance from the
overhead garage door? I would like ot place them as close as I can so
I can reach outside with them if I need to,.