On Mon, 07 Sep 2009 01:21:56 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 14:38:53 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 6 Sep 2009 13:17:50 -0600, "SteveB" wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 06 Sep 2009 03:44:05 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Stuff snipped. I like my Keltec 3AT because it is very pocketable. Yes, it
does not have the knockdown power of a larger bullet, but IIRC, lots of
people have been killed by .380 slugs. A guy locally who teaches carry
permit classes carries a Ruger GP 100 with a 4" barrel in a shoulder
harness. Dissed my Keltec big time. Half the people out there can't hit
**** anyway no matter what the caliber, shotguns excluded. I shot 288/300
on qualifying, so I think I could poke a hole in someone if I needed to.
Hell, old mobsters liked the .22's.

Steve

Ayup...mobsters like the 22, particularly when held at the proper point
at the back of the skull and the round fired. A decent knitting needle
does an equivelant job when employed the same way.

Not even close. A .22 hollowpoint ricochets around inside the skull
making brain pudding (stirred, not shaken) in milliseconds, and two of
them can be quietly administered in well under a second phut phut.

Of course. And if you stick in the knitting needle, clipping the cortex
and simply wiggle it around a bit....the puppet goes down like his
strings were cut instantly.

I'm not making this up. It's how my Dad was killed. I won't say more.

Interesting. Perhaps sometime....?

If you sneak up on an individual, and shoot him square in the side of
the head with a .380 you will likely kill him. Same if you shoot him
smack dab into the heart, when he is not expecting it. Shooting him
while he is asleep is also good with a .380, as long as you hit a
terminally conclusive zone and you have him pinned down.

On the other hand....most of the individuals you will encounter on the
street are already phyched up, and are in Attack mode. They may have a
nervous system boosted/twisted by illegal chemical agents such as
methamphetamine, PCP, heroin and so forth.

I can see why you want a .45 or three. I definitely defer to you to
decide what's best for you in your situation, lifestyle and
environment.

Keep in mind..that the criminals I may encounter..that may need to be
shot...are very similar to those criminals that you encounter that may
need to be shot. Its the sign of the times that they are all very
similar..addicts, violent, no sense of propriety..the usual.

If such is the case....is my need to stop that bad guy quickly...greater
or lesser than your need to stop the bad guy quickly?

Just wondering

In these parts, the vast majority of violent attacks by people like
you describe are done against other people like you describe, in
neighborhoods and locations that I have no reason to visit and don't.
Further, most such encounters are not in "attack mode" but in driveby
mode as in gang turf conflicts except for disputes over women or
drugs. Those don't affect me.

Then you obviously have no need for a weapon. Or a CCW.

As far as I know, I have encountered *no* people like you describe in
the past 40 years. The most likely (and still highly unlikely)
threat for me is a young punk or punks looking for a lone person that
looks like easy prey to mug for a few bux. Seniors are initially
assessed as easy prey but display of any gun can instantly correct
such initial "easy prey" assessment error. 90% of legal civilian
self-defense armed encounters, excluding home invasion and business
robbery, result in no shots fired, and in those cases where shots were
fired the result was nearly always that the shot attacker retreated if
able to do so.

Ill remember that when I visit several graves in the coming Christmas
season.

Reading Massad Ayoob and applying his guidance to my situation has
helped shape my thinking here. I didn't just make it up out of whole
cloth. By the way, Ayoob notes that most experts agree that .380 is
included in the list of viable self-defense calibers. It's about
minimum but it does make the list. My threat level is also minimal or
less.

No..your threat level is minimal. But when it happens..your need for a
real cartridge is 100%. So either you carry a gun for self defense if an
when, or you are simply carrying a small pretty object.

Do your fire extingishers at home exceed a few onces? If so..why?

So I conclude that the little gun I will sometimes carry will be of
far more potential value to me than the larger, heavier guns I leave
at home. I don't even carry the little one very often.

Why would you leave a decent gun at home? I and most of my friends
carry suitable weapons..and have daily..for and I include myself ....for
over 30 yrs. I personally, as a civilian, have been forced to draw my
weapon 6 times in those 30 yrs. Ive never needed to fire a shot.
However..can I say the same..the next time it happens? And it should be
noted..that a big hole in the end of that thing sticking out of my
hand.."looked like a ****ing cave" to one of the defendants who is still
sitting in jail..and will likely continue to do so for another 5-10 yrs.

Shrug...your choice. Ive stated that repeatedly.

In such cases..,you are not shooting Granny in her rocking chair half
asleep. You are shooting a generally young, vicious animal who intends
to do you harm and with no finess or class or grace, who is likely to be
hyped up on drugs or adrenaline.

The greatest likelihood by a vast margin, as things stand today, is
that I'm shooting no one at all. Life's a risk until we die so we may
as well enjoy the trip. I don't drive a tank for fear of collisions
and I don't live in a stone house with no combustibles for fear of
fire. I would love to be able to play the banjo but I'm too lazy to
learn. I hack on my piano now and then, an Everett.

So you dont have smoke detectors, fire extinguishers or insurance.
Right?


Re Granny in her rocker: she's probably at home so she just might
have a little sump'n sump'n under her lap cover, might have maxed her
CCW range qual test last fall, might be quite able to punch an eye,
ear or nostril with her little ****ant .380 Sig at any range possible
in the same room with her rocker and she may have maternal instinct
for sensing danger, disruption, misconduct or bad manners even if
seemingly snoozing. Might you grok the concept of "it's a really bad
idea to **** Ma off"?

So you will be going out armed with a .380..and Mary will be toting an
XD40? I hope its not in her purse. When they snag it..they get the gun
too.

Oh, and Gramps might be in the next room at home with an XD40 loaded
with Hydrashok, 12 in the mag and another in the spout, that he can
empty in 4 seconds with all shots shredding COM on an advancing target
starting at 21 feet.

Oh..so you do you carry a weapon about the house all the time? Its not a
big deal if you do of course. I do quite often. I generally simply
forget I have one on. Shrug. Not forget..shrug..its simply Part of me.

Might a different easy prey metaphor be more appropos? G

Only if it had any basis on reality.

Shrug

Do as you wish Don. I just hope you continue to have a life of peace
and no strife.

Gunner





"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with
minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing
clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---
his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates