flipper wrote:
On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 19:37:21 +0100, richard
wrote:


flipper wrote:

On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:55:04 +0100, richard
wrote:



Jim Thompson wrote:


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/op...-54816897.html

...Jim Thompson

Jim,

The previous administration initiated the waste of trillions of dollars on the invasion of Iraq.


The cost of the Iraq war, from beginning all the way to now, hasn't
yet reached the amount Obama and the Democrats in Congress spent in
just one 'stimulus' of bribes bill that they didn't even allow anyone
to read before passing.




Your taxes up in smoke.

Each administration has its own way of blowing your cash.

**** the lot of them - but Obama's way is arguably more benign.


The destruction of liberty is never 'benign'.

Two wrongs don't make a right


I couldn't agree more so why is it you appear to be making that kind
of argument?



- but what was the Patriot act if it wasn't the destruction of liberty ?


Just exactly which 'liberty' did you loose? The 'liberty' to chat 'in
private' with Al Qaida in Pakistan or the 'liberty' to plan a bombing
in secret?

The word you intend is "lose". "Loose" is associated with a screw.

The situation is that the state now has greater powers to snoop on the citizens.
Wholly innocent people come under suspicion and are subject to investigation and arrest.
The "terrorists" have succeeded. The population is cowed.
People suspect one and other more.
Your taxes go to pay for this heightened "security". A whole range of people get arbitrary powers.

Perhaps not the patriot act, but I had a laser pointer confiscated from me at an airport.
A woman beside me had a "snowstorm" confiscated for fear that the liquid was explosive.
I am not allowed to take photos in railway stations etc etc.

People are more paranoid and uptight.

The perception is that the Americans routinely torture foreign nationals.

All this is what Bush visited on the American people so, in that sense, it is a relief that he has been replaced by someone with
more humane values.




I have my own problems with certain parts of the Patriot Act but it
was targeted at avowed enemies of the United States and (already)
illegal activities. It was passed with overwhelming support from both
parties, making most of the critics cowards and hypocrites, and most
provisions were sunsetted, meaning they were not permanent.

Now, I'm not going to argue that the Patriot Act was '100%' benign but
I haven't yet found an average, everyday, Joe who, besides spouting
political talking points, could put his finger on anything in his life
it affected and I doubt the vast majority of people, save a few
terrorists, would have been able to tell it even existed if not for
the 'politics'.

Obama's proposed 'heath care reform', or 'insurance reform', or
whatever 'focus group wording' he's calling it this week, is another
whole ball of wax. It affects every single soul in the country, is
permanent, and, if the critics are correct (and it's my opinion they
are), amounts to a government take over of 16% of the economy. And
that's before you get to the 'good stuff' like government agencies
deciding what constitutes 'good practice' whether "you and your
doctor" think it is or not.

And even if you disagree with my opinion of the Patriot Act, "two
wrongs don't make a right."