Tim Daneliuk wrote:
Jack Stein wrote:

I don't get why this subthread is so controversial. ISTM:

1) Kennedy clearly had no intent to kill the woman.
Ergo, an accident!

Not necessarily. An "accident" is generally understood to be
something a normal person could not reasonably avoid. i.e. Their
behavior played no role in the event.

This is not correct. Even the legal definition doesn't say that. The
normal definition of an accident is, and I quote:

ACCIDENT: an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs
unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss;
casualty; mishap: automobile accidents.

Even the legal definition, according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of
Law, says, and I quote:

ACCIDENT: an unexpected usually sudden event that occurs without intent
or volition although sometimes through carelessness, unawareness,
ignorance, or a combination of causes and that produces an unfortunate
result (as an injury) for which the affected party may be entitled to
relief under the law or to compensation under an insurance policy —see
also UNAVOIDABLE ACCIDENT
NOTE: The term accident has been held to include intentional acts (such
as an assault and battery) under workers' compensation.

Now, I really don't care all that much, just find it amusing that so
many don't have a clue what an accident means.

This is abundantly NOT the case when someone drinks to impairment
and then endangers or kills another - however inadvertently - because
the event COULD have reasonably been avoided.

All sorts of accidents can be reasonably avoided. Many think ALL
accidents can be avoided. Lawyers think so, I don't. As far as
drinking goes, Kennedy probably drove drunk without an accident more
times than many people drove sober w/o an accident. He may have been
MORE sober than normal, and reasonably expected to NOT get in an
accident. A guy that worked over the hill from me drove home completely
drunk every night, 7 days a week, for many, many years. He never had an
accident, never put a scratch on his car. He eventually died from a
heart attack. Never did wreck, but I'll bet he would have wrecked had
he had the heart attack whilst driving.

For all you know Kennedy was getting road head and it was the orgasm
that caused the wreck, and not the booze.

Drinking to excess is
a decision, and driving thereafter is also a decision - one which, in
my view, constitutes an act of threat at the very least.

I think every time an inexperienced driver gets behind the wheel, lives
and property are in danger. Every time some old goat gets behind the
wheel, lives are in danger. Life is full of avoidable dangers.

2) Kennedy DID have the intent to drink heavily.
Perhaps, drinking is a legal activity.

But drinking to the point of impairment is not in pretty much
all states. Drinking to impairment and then driving is illegal
in EVERY state.

Yes, I'm aware of all that. I'm not aware Kennedy was so impaired he
intentionally drove himself into the water. Odds are just as good he
was getting road head at the time. Who knows?

3) His impairment therefore was volitional (legally speaking) and he
is thus culpable for the consequences of his action.

Perhaps, but still, legally and non-legally speaking, it was an accident.

Legally speaking, unless you can prove he was impaired, he wasn't.
Legally speaking, unless you can prove he killed someone on purpose, he
didn't. Legally speaking, money can be had anytime something goes awry.

The point of this subthread is that he was not held accountable *legally*
as he should have been.

That changed when I said it was an accident, get over it. Now, people
are trying to tell me it wasn't an accident. They are all wet, so to speak.

Had it not been for his standing as one of
the preeminent communist politicians in the US, he'd have been handed the
usual legal smackdown anyone else is.

At the time of the accident, accidents of this type were far less
persecuted.

When crime is considered, courts look at Motive, Means, and Opportunity.

Governments, generally, do not consider a crime happened until proven in
a court of law. Nothing was proven in a court of law, so, nothing
happened (legally) other than a simple accident.

condition drives through a park a thousand times with no problem, then,
one dark day has a heart attack and kills 20 kids playing rugby...

Again, it depends. If he *knew* there was a significant chance of
his having an attack as you describe, then, yes, he's culpable in some
degree.

And yet I, and Merriam Webster, would still consider it an accident.

If he did not, and could not reasonably have known, he was at
risk for heart failure, there is no culpability on his part.

ANYONE with a known heart condition knows there is some risk of heart
failure. Anyone with family history of heart conditions knows they are
at risk of heart failure. Anyone alive should be aware anyone can have
a heart attack at any time.

Lawyers tend to think culpability and money, human beings tend to think
what a horrible accident.

But human beings also thing about common sense accountability. If
you run over my yard in with your tractor because you're skunk drunk,
I assure you I would demand legal remedy (and lots of money)... and
probably get it.

If you run over my yard with a tractor because you are a bumbling idiot,
I assure you I would demand legal remedy as well. I'm not a thief, so
probably wouldn't go for any money over and above the damage done.

I feel bad Mary Jo got herself killed. I feel bad Mrs. Kennedy didn't
have a post, or pre-natal abortion. She might still be alive, and the
USSA would not have had an anti-American, socialist ******* like Kennedy
to foul the air. Mary Jo's death was an accident, the foul air was
pre-meditated and no accident...

I thought you were on the political right - now you endorse abortion?

Not only that, I'm an atheist. Hows that fit your mold of those on the
right. Moreover, I don't really support abortion all that much, but
since millions are performed every year, it would not have upset me at
all if Kennedy was one of the victims, or Chavez, or Hitler, or Obama,
or Castro, or most other socialist *******s that annoy me...

--
Jack
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