On Jun 11, 2:32*pm, wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:19*pm, RicodJour wrote:



On Jun 11, 11:36*am, wrote:

On Jun 11, 9:48*am, RicodJour wrote:
On Jun 11, 9:12*am, wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:09*am, RicodJour wrote:

You're looking through the wrong end of the telescope. *I don't mean
to be harsh, but you shouldn't have had kids if you regret bringing
them into the _this_ world. *The world doesn't change. *There are
wars, famine, etc., etc. *This is as it has always been, and there's
no reason to believe it will change in any time frame that you can
imagine. *This is neither a good thing, nor a bad thing - it just is.

I'll make some assumptions. *Your kid has a roof over his head, food
on the table, is in reasonable health and has parents that care.. *With
that in mind, who gives a rat's ass about the politics?

Maybe you should ask the Germans what happens when you take that
attitude. I seem to recall a war that cost 50mil+ lives not too long
ago. *There are countless other examples I could cite, but what's the
point? *It's incredible anyone could make such a stupid statement, but
it does show where we are headed.

Oh, maybe I misunderstood you. *Are you saying that Obama is Hitler,
or are you saying that the US is recovering from losing a war, just
ended some of the highest inflation the world has ever known, and the
people are used to taking orders so will just follow blithely into the
breach?

I didn't say or imply any of that.

Then why are you bringing up Nazi Germany?

Because, one more time, the attitude in Germany was exactly yours.
As long as I have food, a roof over my head and Hitler makes the
trains run on time, then I don't give a rat's ass about politics lead
to Nazi Germany. * *So Hitler gets more power, more control, who gives
a rat's ass, it's just politics, it doesn't matter.

Again with the Nazi Germany. From your replies it is clear you don't
have the foggiest idea of my exact attitude.

We already did that blithely into the breach thing in Iraq - I don't
think that will be happening again any time soon without a little more
justification.

My statement above was addressed to a father who seemed to be saying
that he regretted bringing his kid into this world...this political
and economic world. *Do you feel that this our current situation is so
hopeless?

What is being "discussed" here is politics.

Yes, and you said

"Your kid has a roof over his head, food on the table, is in
reasonable health and has parents that care. *With that in mind, who
gives a rat's ass about the politics?"

Which is incredibly naive. * My obvious point is, ignore politics and
you could wind up like Nazi Germany. * Germany prospered under
Hitler's rule, people had better roofs, more food on the table, and
the trains ran on time. * *So, people didn't much care about his
politics, the morality of it, and look where it got them and the
world.

And I could give you countless other examples where that happened and
people lost their freedom and horrible effects resulted because they
didn't give a rat's ass about politics.

When I refer to 'politics' I am referring to the whole conservative/
liberal, democrat/republican, you're an idiot/no you are mentality
that is rampant. *I am sorry if you read into that that I don't care
about the problems we are facing. *I do - of course.

Those "problems" are directly related to and a part of politics.
That's the mechanism through which national policy is set.



What I will not do is to pass on a pessimistic outlook to the next
generation and just be another bitter old fogey bitching about how the
world was better when they were a kid.

What you see as ****imistic, I and *I think Windcrest see as
reality. * Perhaps you don't understand the economic significance of
what is happening. * The national debt is now $11 trillion. * Assuming
a family size of 4, that amounts to $125,000 in debt per family.
It's 75% of GDP. * *Obama's budgets propose adding $10 trillon to it
over the next decade, just about doubling it. * That will take it to
levels higher relative to GDP than it was at the end of WWII. *It will
be $250K per family, more than most peoples mortgages.

****imistic...? I like it! It's not a word, but I like it anyway.
It is appropriate even given its non-word status. That is how a lot
of people moaning come across - they're pessimistic and ****ing about
it.

And back at the end of WWII, the US was the super economy in the
world. * We had cheap energy, manufactured everything, and could
easily support that debt load on our economy. * * Saddle the economy
with it today, and it's not clear how we will ever be able to handle
it. *And that doesn't factor in some other REAL national emergency,
that might add trillions more, like a war with North Korea. * So,
excuse me if I think our children should know it. * *But if you go
around telling them everything is rosey, don't give a rat's ass about
politics, just be happy, I think it's absolutely the WRONG thing to
do. *But it is what Obama would like you to do.

Sigh. You're not reading what I wrote, you're not even reading
between the lines, you're just making stuff up.

Working towards solutions doesn't mean you have to look to the future
with apprehension. *That's like a wide receiver hearing footsteps and
getting spooked. *Instead of thinking, "Uh oh, if I catch this I'm
going to get run over", they should be thinking, "If I catch this I'm
going to run my ass off and let's see if they can catch me." *He still
may get run over in either event, but the second mindset is far more
likely to see him running his ass off and actually doing something.

Spoken like a true kool-aid drinker.

You obviously never played sports.

http://costofwar.com/*I don't see that that money was wisely invested
in our future, do you?

I say the money spent on the war in Afghanistan was absolutely the
correct thing to do. *That's $190Bil. *The money spent in Iraq,
$677Bil, was not wisely spent. * *Add them together, and Obama is
going to run deficts that large or bigger EACH YEAR for the next
decade. * That is what some of us are speaking out against.

Which part of the war in Afghanistan? The part where we backed the
current terrorists while they were fighting the Russians, provided
them with money, arms and training, or the current part?

The US is not the world's cop, and shouldn't go bankrupt trying to
prove it "still has it".

It doesn't matter which party someone is affiliated with, if you're
****ing money away, you're ****ing money away.

That's true. * I spoke out against the spending over the last 8 years
too, including when Republican controlled the Congress. * *But what
you fail to grasp is that it is now being taken to a level way beyond
what anyone thought remotely possible and if it goes unchecked, it can
bankrupt the country, turning the US into the likes of some joke of a
third world country, unable to repay loans.

Why leads you to believe I have a different view? We never raised the
issue, so you're just making stuff up. Maybe you should stop...?

I see problems, I look for solutions. *I don't care where the
solutions come from. *I am not in control of where the problems come
from (usually), and I am also not in control of how the solutions are
approached. *The best I can do is to try to maintain a pleasant
demeanor and make have rational, calm discussions about what needs to
be done with as many people as will listen.

The key thing should, of course, be for people to seek common ground
and seek a solution.
All the other stuff is chest thumping and finger pointing and
interests me not in the least.

Sure, utopia would be nice too.

Indeed. Just because it was "impossible" to put a man on the moon
didn't mean it could never be done. This is where hope and dreams
come in. You don't create hope and dreams by instilling terror about
bogeymen and financial death and destruction.

I don't expect anyone to change their opinion based on what I say, I
just want them to listen and think about it. *I don't see much
listening and thinking going on. *I see people using the wonders of
the Internet to easily grab information that supports their pre-
conceived ideas. *That happens on all sides. *It only obfuscates. *I
don't want to feed into the distractions. *Sorry about that!

I don't see how getting information that supports your viewpoint
obfuscates or is a distraction. * If you leave out facts, you're left
with emotion. * And that is what the country is running on today. * A
classic, of which Goebles would be proud, is Obama's constant harping
of "We've created or saved XXX thousands of jobs." *What total
rubbish. *Economists have historically measured how many new jobs were
created. * Presidents have crowed about that number, usually before re-
election time. * But this utter nonsense now, 5 months into a term,
about XXX jobs saved? * No economist measures such a thing and you can
just make up any number to fool people you want/

87.3% of statistics are made up.
All numbers lie.

Isn't it interesting that in the space of one paragraph you went from
contesting my point to supporting it? I find it fascinating!

In this case, there isn't much to think about. * This reckeless
deficit spending has to be quickly brought under control or we and our
children will pay a very heavy price. * * But so far, I don;t see that
happening. * And telling people that as long as they have food and
shelter to not give a rat's ass about politics, isn't helping.

It's obvious that you hold some misconceptions. Let me clarify.

I AGREE there are major problems that need fixing, and that increasing
the deficit is a BAD thing.

I never said people should stick their heads in the sand. I said
running around screaming and berating people isn't an effective way to
function and it is counterproductive when trying to influence people.

I believe people should VOTE. I am saddened that a large portion of
today's younger potential-voters don't exercise their right. When I
ask them why, they usually reply that they don't think it matters and
that all the politicians are the same. This attitude is a direct
result of having adults on both sides of the fence calling each other
names and dragging people through the mud. It's a stupid way to
behave and it sends a bad message.

You want to get out a message? Start with convincing the younger
generation that their opinions matter. Telling them that the world is
going to hell is not a good way to do that.

You want to improve the world? Start with showing your opponent some
respect.

A little hope goes a lot further than trying to scare people.

R