On Tue, 5 May 2009 12:42:12 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On May 5, 1:28*pm, "olddog" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On May 5, 11:23 am, "olddog" wrote:





wrote in message

news:4a0046f8.747531644@localhost...

On Tue, 05 May 2009 03:23:33 GMT, in alt.home.repair, "olddog"
wrote:

Well...if you really believe you can run a ht daily at 102 on $1.57/mth
I've
got a bridge to sell you. :-) Do you have solar panels or a wind
turbine?

No, no home power, but you're correct, my spreadsheet formulas were
wrong.
But it doesn't tell the whole story anyway: my average power bill went
up
by
$5.56 after installing the tub, but the kWh cost of power increased as
well,
and they recently added a $4/mo city surcharge to the bill that I
haven't
factored out. Then, my actual power consumption has gone *down* by 82
kWh/mo since we got the tub! So there's a lot of hidden factors in
there,
including learning how to manage our overall household power
consumption.
But it seems plain to me that the electrical cost of running a hot tub
is
easily lost in the noise.

You must get a pretty sweet deal on kWh. Our elec bills here are tied into
our city bill which seems to include the cost of the air we breath.

It would be interesting to put your tub on a usage meter. Sounds like it's
using less amps than a coffee maker, which can be pretty expensive.

How can a coffee maker be pretty expensive? * They only draw around
1000W when making coffee and that lasts 5 mins or so at most a couple
times a day. * * After that, even if you leave it in warming mode for
a couple hours, that's more like a 75 or 100 watt load. * The large
loads in a house are things like the AC, running the heating blower,
cooking.

I do agree that $5.50 a month sounds low for running a hot tub. *But I
don't believe it's all that high either. *I don't notice any major
swings in my electric bill during periods when it's been offline for
whatever reason, versus when it's in service. * But then I also keep
mine set way down in temp and just raise the temp in advance of using
it.

BTW, thanks for pointing out the gas heated ones. *You also raised a
question in another post about my comment about 120V spas not being
able to run the pump on high and the heater at the same time. * That
is due to the fact that they run off a 20 amp circuit, which will not
support both at the same time. * While heating, the pump runs on low,
to just circulate the water. * If you switch it to high to activate
the jets, the heating gets turned off by the controller. *With 240V
you not only have more power due to the voltage, but typically the
circuits run are 40 or 50 amps.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

I was thinking about your post and I had come to the same conclusion and I
realized I didn't understand exactly what you were talking about.

Expensive is a relative term. Coffee makers are one of the larger energy
consumers in your house. So relative to say a TV or a light bulb it's
expensive.

.

Total nonsense. My typical coffee maker is rated at 900 watts.
That is when it's actually brewing coffee, which as I pointed out,
takes about 5 mins. After that, if you leave it on warm, it's
probably about 100 or 150WW. So, 5 mins while brewing at 900 watts
for 5 mins is like leaving a 100 watt bulb on for 45 mins. Big
deal. After that, if it's warming, it's like leaving a 100 watt, or
at most a couple 100 watt lights on. A typical big screen TV,
which are common today, can easily draw a couple hundred watts. And
TVs, like lights, are on for a long time compared to a coffee maker.
The big consumers of energy in a home are AC, furnace heater blower,
cooking, water heater.... and I could go way down the list before ever
getting to the little old coffee maker.

Here in NJ, I pay some of the highest rates for electric in the
country, around 17c Kwh. Let's say I made coffee 2X a day, and left
it on warming for an hour after that each time.

900W X 5 mins X60 = 4.5kwh, 75 cents

150W X 1hr X 60 = 9kwh, $1.5

$2.25 is maybe 1% of an electric bill. And that's assuming quite a
bit of use.



If you leave it on after brewing it burns watts while it burns
your coffee. Which is why I turn mine off after brewing and use a thermos

Which is the point about 120 vs. 240. 120s have to left on constantly while
the 240s can be put on a timer to heat up at some point so it will be ready.

This is still not as big a difference in energy as you believe. The
difference is only in how much heat the spa loses over time at say
100F vs how much it will lose letting it go down to a lower temp, say
80F some of the time. If you use it everday, the difference will be
so small, it won't matter. When you reset it back to 100 the next
day, the heater will run for almost as long as it would had it just
maintained it at 100 all along. Now, if you only use it once a week,
then lowering the temp will make a larger difference and could be
worthwhile. It's like setting your house thermostat down overnight,
it can save maybe 5% or so on your heating bill, but in the grand
scheme of things, it still isn't large.





If I bought a new tub I'd look into gas. They heat faster and they are
cheaper to operate. You may not be able to pick one up at Costco or HD but
that's because they are not as easy to install and gas isn't available
everywhere. IMHO it's worth the extra effort and that is speaking from
experience. But personally I wouldn't buy another stand alone ht. I'd go
with the indoor Jacuzzi tub. YMMV

In my OP I said don't get a 110v (well 120v) and opt for the 240v if you
have to go elec. I guess I don't see your point anymore. If you're arguing
elec is cheaper than gas, common sense says your wrong.

od- Hide quoted text -

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Simple fact: lower average temp = lower energy usage.