On Mar 9, 3:30*am, westom wrote:
On Mar 8, 1:17*pm, bud-- wrote:

It is the religious belief in earthing. Apparently, because it makes him
look so stupid, *w doesn't want to clearly say what he believes - that
plug-in suppressors do not work.

* Bud again does what he does routinely. *First, Bud follows me
everywhere to promote plug-in protectors. *Eventually he then posts
insults. *Bud is a salesman; a promoter for plug-in protectors. *He
does not have design experience; literally witnessing direct strikes
without damage.

* Bud repeatedly posts citations that contradict his claims. *Quotes
from his NIST citation:

You cannot really suppress a surge altogether, nor "arrest" it.
What these protective devices do is neither suppress nor arrest
a surge, but simply divert it to ground, where it can do no harm.


Nothing in the above contradicts anything that Bud has said.




* *What does Bud's plug-in protector do? *Without earthing, it must
stop or absorb surges. *How does that tiny part inside a power strip
absorb or stop what 3 miles of sky could not stop? *Bud refuses to
answer. *Instead, Bud claims his protector clamps surges to nothing.
His magic box will make a surge disappear? *Clamping to nothing will
dissipate surge energy? *Of course not.


Bud never said clamping dissipates surge energy.




*Why does every telco everywhere in the world not use Bud’s
protectors?


Maybe because the central office doesn't consist of equipment that is
plugged into AC outlets like you'd find in a home? And actually
the telcos do use a tiered approach to protection and do not just rely
on a single point of supression. In addition to protection on the
phone wires and AC entering the builiding, there is also surge
protection on the actual line cards contained in the switch, where the
phone wires terminate.



*They need protection that actually works and costs much
less money. *An effective protector makes a short connection to
earth. *Telcos use effective ‘whole house’ protectors. *Even Bud's
NIST citation bluntly says that on page 17:

A very important point to keep in mind is that your
surge protector will work by diverting the surges to
ground. *The best surge protection in the world can
be useless if grounding is not done properly.

* Protectors promoted by Bud have no dedicated earth ground. *Somehow
it will magically dissipate surge energy? *Worse, an adjacent
protector may even earth a surge destructively through adjacent
appliances. *Just another reason why surges must be earthed before
entering a building. *Just another reason why telcos don’t waste money
on power strip protectors.


Which brings us to another glaring contradiction in your claims that
we've been through before with no answer. All appliances,
electronic gear, etc have surge protection built-in. They use MOVs,
the same components used in plug-in surge protectors, though
smaller. Last time I checked, these appliances and electronic gear
do not have a direct 10 ft connection to an earth ground. Yet, Tom
has told us many times how that protection inside the appliance is
effective. So, with no earth ground, how can that be?

One thing is for sure. I'd rather have the MOV inside a $20 plug-in
surge protector see any surge, rather than the one inside my $2000 TV.




* From Southwest Bell's FAQ on Surge protection:
* How can I protect my DSL/dialup equipment from surges? (#10431)
Surge protection takes on many forms, but always involves the following
components: Grounding bonding and surge protectors. ...
Grounding is required to provide the surge protector with a path to dump
the excess energy to earth. A proper ground system is a mandatory
requirement of surge protection. Without a proper ground, a surge
protector has no way to disburse the excess energy and will fail to
protect downstream equipment.
Bonding is required to electrically connect together the various grounds
of the services entering the premises. Without bonding, a surge may still
enter a premise after firing over a surge protector, which will attempt to
pass the excess energy to its ground with any additional energy that the
services surge protector ground cannot instantly handle, traveling into
and through protected equipment, damaging that equipment in the
process. *...
Now, if all the various service entrance grounds are bonded together
there are no additional paths to ground through the premise. Even if all of
the grounds cannot instantly absorb the energy, the lack of additional
paths to ground through the premise prevents the excess energy from
seeking out any additional grounds through that premise and the electronic
equipment within. As such, the excess energy remains in the ground
system until dissipated, sparing the protected equipment from
damage. ...
By far, the whole house hardwired surge protectors provide the best
protection. When a whole house primary surge protector is installed at the
service entrance, it will provide a solid first line of defense against surges
which enter from the power company’s service entrance feed.


Since you want to use Southwestern Bell as a reference, let's look at
the whole picture. First, SB clearly says that a whole house primary
surge protector will provide a solid FIRST LINE of defense against
surges. Clearly that does not contradict the NIST, IEEE, etc, who
Bud has frequently cited. The NIST, IEEE, etc show whole house surge
protectors used in COMBINATION with plug-in surge protectors.

What Southwestern Bell says, is very different from Tom's claim that
plug-in surge protectors do not work and actually cause damage. In
fact, Southwestern Bell sells plug-in surge protectors:

http://www.amazon.com/Southwestern-B.../dp/B0002471TC
Southwestern Bell S60860 Travel Telephone Surge Protector


That's right. They actually sell them. And also, the vast majority
of companies that manufacture and sell whole house surge protectors
also sell plug-in protectors too and discuss how to use them as part
of an overall protection strategy. These are the very same
companies that you regularly cite as authorities on surge protection,
but clearly they don't agree with you.




* Should the reader learn reality, then profits are at risk. *So Bud
1) follows me everywhere, 2) to post insults.


Bud may follow you, but it seems you are the one that scours the
internet to find anything to do with surges and then renews this same
thread, without adding anything new. I take that back. This time you
did add the Southwestern Bell citation which not only doesn't say what
you claim it does, but SB actually sells plug-in surge protectors.
And in all these threads, I don't think I've yet seen one person in
any of them that agrees with you that plug-in surge protectors are
useless and actually cause damage.