On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:07:58 -0800, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 08:58:21 -0600, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

Thanx to all repliers. The car is now in the hands of local, (capable ?) Pontiac, Buick, GMC
dealer's service department. Business must be way off there. Right off the bat the service advisor
tried to sell me some after-warranty "chemical" insurance when I explained the suspected injector
problem. I opted out of course.

Business IS way off, the New Car Sales side of the house at some
dealers has dropped 90% or more.

So the Service side of the house has been co-opted by the Gods Of
Profit to push many (usually of dubious utility) flushing services as
a form of prerventative maintenance. Radiator flushes, intake
cleaning, transmission flushes, final drive gears, oil system flushes,
power steering, brakes, air ducts in the Heater and Air
Conditioning...

You name a system, and they have a way to apply a vacuum cleaner to
your wallet to flush all the excess cash out of it.

Brake Bleeding $40 - Brake Flushing Service $129 for the same thing,
just done by an impressive looking machine that they wheel up to the
car and wave their hands while chanting "Ohwatta Foolheis."

Same thing for Power Streering, the most understressed system on a
car. Mine I have to actually worry about - but only because the truck
has a Hydrovac brake booster, and failure is not an appealing option.
A good way to judge the honesty level of a shop IMNSHO is to have a
frank talk with the mechanic and/or Service Writer, and tell them you
know these "Profit Center" services are all mostly worthless -
radiator backflushing is the only reasonable one because radiators
don't come apart for cleaning anymore.

If they "drank the Flushing Kool-Aid" and keep insisting they are
all totally needed and highly valuable services "And we're having a
Special on them this week!" you need to turn around and RUN.

They are putting earning an extra commission above integrity. What
else are they going to lie to you about?

-- Bruce --
They should not be "wholesaled" as a profit center - but they are a
usefull tool in many cases. Would you like a $45 Power Stearing flush
to see if we can quiet down that nasty whine, or should we just go
ahead and throw a $300 rack and a $200 pump (and another 250 bucks
worth of hoses) at it right away? Oh, and by the way, the labour to
replace the pump and rack is $700.And you'll still need the fluid too.

Durn right I'll try the flush and the $8 bottle of conditioner.

Brake bleeding or brake flush? Depends how well the system will be
bled for $40. Will ALL of the fluid be changed? How about the ABS
accumulators? A proper brake flush will remove the moisture
contaminated and heat deteriorated fluid from the system in it's
entirety - and replace it with fresh clean fluid.

IF the fluid is "changed" every 48 months by a proper bleeding, the
"hot dog" flush is not required. How many vehicles EVER get a brake
bleed unless a component goes bad, REQUIRING the system to be
opened???? They should. And the car will last longer with less
problems if all the "recommmended services" are done at or before the
recommended interval.

Ever price out replacing all flex lines, all caliprs, master cyl and
ABS assembly on a 3 year old car??? I see cars go to the scrapyard
because "they just are not worth repairing" whn they need a complete
brake job (abs problems) and the steering rack is "notchy"

THAT is criminal.
Selling proper maintenance is not.
Overselling IS - but so is "purposeful neglect"