On Jan 22, 4:25*pm, "Jim2009" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Jan 21, 7:55 pm, "Jim2009" wrote:





wrote in message

....
On Jan 21, 3:58 pm, "Jim2009" wrote:

wrote in message

....
On Jan 21, 2:57 am, "Jim2009" wrote:

"Ray" wrote in message

...

This query seeks experience of others on cable, digital, and
satellite
TV
services.

We live in a six-unit apartment building. Is it possible to get a
single
cable or satellite service for the entire building -- obviously at
lower
cost? It would seem to me no different than getting service in a
single-family residence with TVs in six rooms.

I suppose I could also ask if it might be possible to get a single
internet service, using wireless, which would give every unit a
connection. Actually, you probably could do that without the server
even
knowing it.

But, as Richard Nixon so eloquently said, "that would be wrong."

Sharing an Internet connection is easy, all you need is your cable
modem
and
a wireless router. Many routers allow up to 50 connections. You might
want
a router with extended coverage (see wireless standards). Linksys is
the
best brand. Each user must then have a wireless adapter installed in
their
PC. PCI Adapters for desktops, PCMCIA (cards for laptops, most new
laptops
have built in wireless) or a USB wireless adapter that plugs into your
USB
port and can be used with any PC.
See more info athttp://www.linksysbycisco.com/US/en/home

You could run the Router OPEN, meaning anyone could access the network
or
better yet password protect your network and provide approved users
with
the network password. Security for wireless networks use to be more
difficult to setup, thus there were many OPEN networks, but todays
software
makes it quite easy to accomplish a secure WAN.

Having mulitple users on the same network is not an issue.

There are actually multiple issues:

1 - Is it permissible in the contract with the cable company?

1A) No, it would have to be a hush-hush deal with your neighbors. "Open'
access (unprotected router) are not allowed by many cable providers. And
sharing of a PSW protected router is I'm sure a no-no too, but it's not
like
your sharing a physical cable, so there's little a cable company can do.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Various states have specific laws
covering cable service and what constitutes theft of service. I would
not be surprised to find that in some cases, that in addition to civil
exposure, you might actually have the possibility of criminal
prosecution.

Yeah, I pretty sure these is a difference between tracing a physical
shared
cable and a wireless connection that you can not see.

Is it highly likely? Probably not. But suppose the guy in 6b gets
****ed off at you, decides to rat you out, and calls the cable company
and tells them what's been going on. You want to be the guy with the
contract with the cable company for one legitimate internet service?

What's been going on? He hacked my router, hacking is a criminal offense!

So is lying to investigators, if it came to that. * You think that's a
good idea too? * Here's the guy reselling service, collecting money,
and *proposing to add it to monthly condo fees. *Surely there is both
an accounting trail and other condo owners who could easily yield the
truth.

Who said anythig about reselling it? Maybe this guy owns the units and just
wants to add free wireless to the package like a washer and dryer room.

From the context and the flow of the thread, if you paid attention
before giving blanket advice, it's quite obvious that Ray doesn't own
the units. And in fact he had this to say:

"The directors could vote to make the cable/satellite service a part
of the
monthly maintainence fee -- just as we do with heat and water. "

Does that sound like he owns a rental building? As for the comparison
to a washer/dryer room, well there is none. Presumably, he would OWN
the washer, dryer and building. I seriously doubt an individual
cable internet account contract allows one to distribute access to 5
other apts.



Businesses do it all the time, why couldn't a owner?

Because of the above and if you follow the thread, he doesn't own the
building. The building could get it, and distribute it, as any other
business, eg hotel would, PROVIDED THEIR CONTRACT WITH THE SERVICE
PROVIDER ALLOWS IT.




Apartment people do this all the time, but it's usually not a shared
deal,
just a few non-techs with Open Access being taken advantage of by techs.

Someone getting into your wireless service without your knowledge and
permission is an entirely different situation from you getting one
legitimate service and then sharing it by becoming the network
administrator, collecting the payments from others, etc.

Oh, so you recommend he should just set up an OPEN router and let other
discoved it, OK.

No, I never recommended any such thing. * * I just pointed out that
trying to equate setting up a shared internet connection for an
apartment complex off a single individual internet connection to
someone happening to find an open wireless internet has no validity.
What I am suggesting is that contrary to your claim that there is no
issue with setting up a shared internet service off a single apt
service, there are in fact many issues, both potentially legal, as
well as practical. *Before he proceeds, among other things, he should
consider:

A - Is it allowed under the cable contract?

It is for many businesses, so maybe he gets a bus account?

B - If not, does he want to be the guy in who's name the service is
in? * What happens if 5 years later the guy in 6b calls the cable
company, tells them Ray has been the administrator, collecting fees,
etc and the cable company comes and wants payment from Ray for full
internet fees for 5 apts for 5 years?

LOL! *What if the sky falls?

The likelihood of him getting nailed and screwed is a lot higher than
the sky falling. By that standard, gee, why should I have insurance
on my house. The chance of a fire is remote.




C - If it's not allowed, what does state law say, if anything, *about
it? * I would think in many states, it would be considered theft of
services.

LOL! *Yeah the jails are just full of people that had Open access. *LOL!


Again, you are deliberatley comparing two very different things. One
is someone who has an unsecured wireless network and SOMEONE NEARBY
CASUALLY ACCESSES IT. The other is telling Ray that there is no
issue with him purposefully setting up his internet service to be
shared by, and then paid for one way or another, by 5 other
apartments. Got it now?

As for even the open access part, here's what CNN had to say about it
recently. And note that they don't give even your blanket
endorsement that it's OK and not an issue:




"The spread of wireless is opening lots of opportunity to log on for
free, but experts urge caution.

Will this land you in jail?
The legality of stealing your neighbor's connection is murky at best.

"All of this stuff is so new, it's hard to say what the liability
issues are," said Robert Hale, a San Francisco-based attorney who
recently published an academic paper on the subject.

Hale points out that there is a federal law on the books that
ostensibly prohibits using someone's access point with out their
permission. But "without permission" is vaguely defined and the law
seems more geared towards computer hacking.

"A broad statement concerning the access of unprotected wireless
networks as being always legal or illegal simply can't be made," said
Jackie Lesch, a spokeswoman for the Department of Justice. "It's just
kind of dicey."

On the state level it could be more clear. "It's unlawful access",
said John Geraty, an officer with the Internet crimes against children
unit of the San Francisco Police Department.

According to Geraty, using your neighbor's wireless is specifically
prohibited in the California penal code. "It's not yours and you're
taking it," he says. "







D - Does Ray want to be the guy people call at 10PM when they can't
get connected, for whatever reason?

Sure, there's an extra service charge for calls made after 5 PM! *LOL!

Yep, another non-issue according to you. Apparently the realities
of computer and network support are a foreign concept to you.




E - Who's going to put in the system, make sure coverage is OK for the
entire building, maintain it, etc?

My 5 year old nephew is available on weekends.

Yep, another non-issue according to you.




And in view of all that, whether it's worth saving $30 a month. *I
know the answer for me is no.

Well, everyone has to make their own decisions.


Yes, but they should make them in view of the real facts, not because
some nit-wit on the internet proclaims that there are no issues to
redistributing internet service to 6 apts.






2 - How much bandwith the service provides versus what loads all the
different users will be placing on it.

2A) My cable provider has 3 levels, 1.5 Mbps, 8 Mbps, and 20 Mbps. Many
people still use dial-up at 56 Kbps! How many times will 56K go into 1.5
M?

Sure, just as I'm sure there are many people still running Win98 on a
386. But it's not the typical scenario today. What is more typical
is to have users downloading r/t video, large video files, or other
heavy demands.

Your not downloading **** unless your using a binary news reader with
multiple connections.

LOL







Your sharing the bandwith of the cable anyways with all your neighbors
even
if they all had separate paying accounts, but with one modem your
bandwith
is limited to your provider level.

Yes, but so what? I have around 1.5mbits up, 4.5 down and the system
can handle that with the typical load of all the others on the entire
cable system. I periodically benchmark it. Even so, it can take
some time to download larger files. I would not want to split my
bandwith with 5 other users.

Larger files.... LOL.... give me some sizes? Even if you could find a
large file on the internet, you would still only be using one connection,
one connection can only use so much bandwith.

Really LOL now. * Even if you could find a large file on the internet?

You been watching too many

Cable company commercials where they keep trying to sell you faster and
faster speeds when you don't need them.

So, says you. * Every speed increase I've ever had in internet
connectivity has given me a speed boost that I both noticed and
used. * I'm at around 4.5mbits down now, and not about to share that
with 5 other households.

I have 3 PC's networked, 1 wired, 2 wireless and have seen no problems at
all when all are in use.


Cool. So, since there are 6 apts, lets multiply the above by 6 and
see what happens. And factor in some real usage like many PCs see
today, with rich content, r/t video, downloading movies, etc, as
opposed to you hunting and pecking on newgroups.