On Fri 26 Dec 2008 02:11:34p, Jim Beaver told us...


"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
.. .
Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Fri 26 Dec 2008 01:48:54a, E Z Peaces told us...

Jim Beaver wrote:
"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
5.247...
On Thu 25 Dec 2008 04:53:05p, E Z Peaces told us...

Jim Beaver wrote:
"E Z Peaces" wrote in message
.. .
Jim Beaver wrote:
I've got my Christmas tree set up in my living room. A couple
of strings of lights (not those mini-lights, but the
finger-tip size bulbs). Here's the problem:

When I turn on the lights, a loud hum arises from the timer for
my yard sprinklers. This timer is mounted on the outside wall
of the living room. Obviously it's on the same circuit, as the
hum comes
and
goes when the Christmas tree lights are turned on or off.

The hum is loud. Probably loud enough indoors to wake a light
sleeper from a nap if it suddenly came on. It's even louder,
of course, outdoors near the timer.

The power cords, plugs, and receptacles all seem cool. So I'm
wondering: does this sound like an overloading problem, or more
likely some sort of simple harmonic vibration? Am I in danger
of fire, if everything I can get to seems cool?

I don't know anything much about electrical testing or I'd use
a tester on it somehow. But I don't really know what to look
for.

Anyone NOT doing something more interesting on Christmas Eve
who wants to advise me here?

And with that in mind, happy holidays to all here. Thanks.

Jim Beaver
I haven't been able to imagine how the lights could affect
voltage
or
current in the timer.

Are there valves near the timer? Sometimes a solenoid valve can
hum
loudly.
I discovered this morning that the hum doesn't happen in the
daytime.
Which leads me, genius that I am, to conclude that it's not the
sprinkler timer but the low-voltage outdoor lighting system
timer. I
have no idea whether this affects matters much in terms of
safety,
etc.
Jim Beaver
My idea light is flashing! Does an electric eye turn on the
outdoor lights? Maybe the eye is exposed to one of the outdoor
lights as well
as light from your tree in the window, and together they hit it
with enough light to shut it off. That brings the light below the
threshold
and it turns back on. The frequency of the hum would depend on
how
long
it took the outdoor filament to heat white hot.

Maybe I've missed something here, but why belabor this situation?
Just
plug the lights into a socket that's on a totally different
circuit.

All this effort for a temporary lighting situation seems like a
huge waste
of time and effort, or do you just enjoy puzzles?
Hate puzzles. Just trying to avoid running a twenty-foot extension
cord to the nearest receptacle not on this circuit. Christmas is
dangerous enough without decking cables down and across my halls.
Also, I find a house without extension cords running across major
thoroughfares to be more elegant than one with such obstacles.

Jim Beaver
How do the outdoor lights come on? If it's not a timer or a manual
switch, it must be a light sensor.

Incandescent Christmas lights don't generate frequencies, and
"frequencies" shouldn't make a transformer hum. Incandescent
Christmas lights generate light, and light can make a light sensor
turn lights off and on. If you hear a hum, it's probably too fast to
see flickering. The solution would be to shield the sensor from
artificial light.


There are too many unanswered questions for me. First, not all
Christmas tree lights are incandescent; some are LEDs. Second, if the
outdoor lights are powered by a transformer and triggered by a light
sensor, it seems unlikely that an indoor Christmas tree could
interfere with its function. If the outdoor lights are interfering,
then it would happen irrespective of the Christmas tree.


The original post seemed to answer your questions about the tree
lights. People like to put Christmas trees in front windows.

Outdoor lighting systems often have a sensor on the timer. Typically,
the sensor turns it on at dusk and the timer turns it off.

Instructions warn the homeowner that ambient light can make the system
cycle. Yard lights are often aimed at the house and sensor, so the
sensor's threshold may be adjustable.

If plugging in the tree lights makes the outdoor system noisy, I think
ambient light from the tree raises the level at the sensor above the
shut-off threshold. The light could come straight from the tree, or it
could reflect off something outside. When the sensor switches the
outdoor lights off, that may reduce the light on the sensor, which
would then switch the lights back on. The flicker of the outdoor
lights may not be conspicuous.

I think the racket comes from relay chatter. If the timer is designed
for 300 watts of 12V lights, a relay would have to work with a 200A
starting surge. I think a relay that big could be heard indoors.

Okay. A few facts, which may help.

The low-voltage yard lighting is on a timer, not a light sensor. Even
if it were on a light sensor, the ambient light from the Christmas tree
would have no effect, as the tree is nowhere near a window and the
windows are covered. From outdoors it's impossible to tell whether the
tree is lit or even whether the normal room lights are on.

The tree lights are on two strings. Each string plugs in to a separate
socket (but in a single receptacle). Now here's where it gets
interesting. Only one of the strings makes the hum happen. When both
are plugged in and turned on the hum is loudest. But one of the strings
can be turned off or unplugged and there is still a hum. When the
strings are reversed, i.e., the opposite string is turned off or
unplugged, there is no hum.

The lights are incandescent, not LEDs, as far as I can tell. They're
those familiar glass teardrop-shaped bulbs, painted on the inside. The
filaments are not visible.

At this point, it's not a vital inquiry. The tree is coming down today
or tomorrow. But my curiosity is quite piqued, especially in light of
some of the information I've gathered here.

Thanks.

Jim Beaver



Then, if I'm reading this right, one string does cause the problem, but the
other one (or the two together) does cause the problem. Obviously there's
something wrong with the one string of lights.

When you take the tree down, throw the bad string away. No problem. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright
(correct the spelling of "geemail" to reply)
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