Tim Daneliuk wrote:
Morris Dovey wrote:
Hang on a second here. Yes, education is expensive. Just how is
it cheaper if it is public? I'd argue that public education - if the
real and complete costs are tallied - is *more* expensive than
private because there is no market feedback to make it efficient.
By some estimates, the US now spends more per student, inflation
adjusted, than at any time since education went public, and the results
are declining on average. This is not a money problem.
'Scuse me but /you/ were the person who made it a tax-money issue. If
you'd like me to agree that we should be seeing a better result for the
money spent, I can go along with that...
But first, let's decide on what problem we'd like to solve.
Yabbut - in a democracy "rights" are what the people decide they are,
whether they make sense or seem appropriate to you or not. By choosing
to live in a democracy we accept a social contract to live by the rules
chosen by the majority. One of the good things about our democracy is
that we've incorporated mechanisms to change those rules whenever a
majority so elects.
Well again, hang on:
1) The "rights" everyone is trying to vote themselves are not
under the purview of the Federal government because it has
no enumerated power to grant such gifts. To legally elect
themselves these freebies, the Sheeple ought to change the
Constitution. They won't, moochers are never that honest.
There's no need for a specific constitutional authority, any more than
there is for, say, sanitation. It's sufficient that duly elected
legislators passed legislation authorizing expenditures.
2) Some rights - the ones explicated in our Constitution - are
innate and freely distributed to all. My right to free speech
does not diminish your similar right. But the "rights" people
are inventing for themselves are not equally distributed.
They are "rights" granted to some citizens at the expense
of others. This is not a honest theory of rights, its just
stealing under mob rule masquerading as a "right".
The last time I looked around, public education was available to all -
and I didn't see any provision for exclusions. Are you aware of someone
who was denied access to that? If so, I'd be very interested in hearing
the story...
You /can/ effect the changes you want, but first you'll need to build
the necessary consensus...
Today's consensus is mooching. This is why I say we are in an
inexorable slide to the loss of liberty and preeminence in the world.
Two statements of opinion - noted as differing from my own opinions.
(Thank you for sharing.)
Within the context of a democracy, each of those things can be
considered goals worth pursuing, and AFAICT your reservations have more
to do with /how/ to best attain those benefits for the greatest number
of participants.
My reservation has to do with the fact that the unwashed masses are
willing to give away their liberty and freedom merely upon the promise
of some politician that what they want will be given them by government.
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither."
Franklin
These goals - very much worth pursuing - belong in private life, not
as chits to buy votes.
Since you've referenced one of my favorite Ben Franklin quotes, let's
also quote from the document under discussion when he said those words:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident,
that all men are created equal,..."
I welcome you to the land of the unwashed masses (est. July 4, 1776)
All men are *created* equal, but none of the Framers held that they
actually *were* equal. They merely articulated a baseline set of
inherent rights all citizens ought to enjoy and wrote a legal framework
so that all citizens would be "equal" before the law, under the law,
and from the law. The "equality" in question was not about the
citizen, it was that the government ought to be "equal" in its
behavior.
Yes, that too - and nowhere could I find a distinction between unwashed
masses and any other (privileged) group or person.
Never is a /very/ long time... 
Never in time to make a difference to you or me, or likely our children.
Our grandchildren will probably have to learn Mandarin.
Probably a worthwhile endeavor in any case - that's a lot of people not
to be able to share opinions with...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/