On Dec 15, 11:10 am, "Leon" wrote:

They all talk like there will be a
huge problem if they go down. Suppliers will simply have to find new
customers as they probably already have or should have. The writing has
been on the wall for several now.

As a kid, I used to study and read about American businesses and how
they were formed starting with the late 1890s.

Shakespeare couldn't write better stories of greed, deception,
generosity, back stabbing, immense wealth, altruism, and outright
immoral activities. Many things that were done in business 100+ years
weren't illegal here simply because no one thought they needed a law
for people to behave.

Set aside outright thievery (mostly by management!!), business has
been running its course in a very steady way here in the USA. But
due to its age, there are some old business practices that have hung
around as traditions, probably because of the age of the company. Two
of these traditions carried over with the Big Three today are arrogant
management, and immutable labor demands.

As you say Leon, the writing has been on the wall for many years now,
probably about 25 or so. I remember reading many serious
dissertations concerning the demise of the Big Three as early as the
80s. Poor quality cars, silly labor costs, bad management, etc.,
etc., created a monster cancer that has slowly killed the industry.

Even protectionist taxes couldn't kill the foreign cars or their
makers. They invested billions here in our own country to build
better cars here with our own labor forces at a better price. They
beat us at our own game with quality, design, pricing, reliability,
and most importantly a long term business model.

Compare that the first meeting of the Big Three with the Senators to
beg for money a month or so ago (when they flew up to meet in their
private jets to be greeted by private limos) revealed they literally
had no written, no verbal, or even an objective for a plan that would
save them. They simply wanted the money to pay bills, base on "or
else the public would all pay for this".

I remember sitting in my office reading The WSM in the late 80s when
the housing market was crashing, as well as the commercial
construction market. My friends were going out of business because
the economy had slowed so much and they had built companies they
couldn't sustain. Some lost everything. I kept this in mind while I
was reading that the UAW wouldn't budge on the issue of "cross
training".

GM wanted the bumper guy to be able to put on fenders, for which he
would be trained. The fender guy would be cross trained as well. The
cross training gave an automatic raise to each. At no time were the
cross trained folks to be working cross platforms on the same day. If
you started with bumpers, you stayed with bumpers for your shift.

The union said "no". If we need more workers, you must hire more
workers. They would not budge. GM caved. It resulted in double
digit growth of the unionized labor force.

The biggest sticking point in this last round of negotiations seems to
be something that is incredulous to me. The union will not come off
their wage plan, nor will they accept layoffs. The union rep said
that if either of those happen, they will strike. No matter how much
money we throw at the car makers, without reduction of costs, they
won't make it. And if they strike.... game over.

How could you give any of them money that has management that has no
hard, written plan to reverse their current woes, and a labor force
that feels like they shouldn't put anything in the pot for the company
to survive?

Remember, they are begging for money FROM US. Would anyone here let
your city government bail out a construction company that used archaic
equipment, had no cash reserves (just enough for management bonuses,
though) an overpaid labor force for the market and no guaranteed
projects on the books? Worse, no plan for recovery?

Together with management the unions are just as guilty in having bled
the domestic care industry dry.

The recent conduct of all sides, management, union and the Congress
show they have learned nothing.

In each case, they deserve nothing. Certainly none of my tax money.
I would rather see the money spent on ALL the people, not just car
industry people.

Let 'em all sink. They won't go away. Some of the business
economists are settling on the number of 30%. That number represents
the percentage of the cost to do business if they go through
bankruptcy reorganization.

Sounds good to me!

Robert