On Sun, 7 Dec 2008 22:53:09 -0800, "Hawke"
wrote:

So we can agree that the policies of the neocons and those implemented by
the republican party are what has brought us this giant economic mess.
While the "Brave new world order" "crystalized" under the
neocons, this was just the end result of a long process. Don't
forget that it was "Slick Willie," with much help from Bobbie
Dole, that rammed NAFTA through.
But I
am correct in that the US has become uncompetitive, at least in comparison
to what it was at one time. That means our corporations are not doing all
that well.
This all depends on your point of view, your expectations of
corporations and your definations. We have more billionares than
ever before.

In the eighties manufacturing was about 40% of GDP and finance
was around 12%. That has now just about reversed. So as I stated, finance is
what has produced a far bigger piece of our GDP than ever before.
Problem here is that much of the financial "profit" reported was
cobwebs and moonbeams, and in many cases was generated by the
canibilization of the manufacturing sector. When judged by net
taxable income [in many cases zero], the results were *MUCH* less
impressive. Either there was tax fraud on a massive scale, gross
book cooking, or both.

Manufacturing has gone to 12% of GDP, it's shrinking, and it is being done
by the countries with growth rates in the 8 to 12 percent range. We, on the
other hand, have a negative growth rate. Do the calculations. The countries
making the products are doing well, like we used to. The country doing
mainly finance is doing ...well, you know. So the US is having to rely on
finance of all kinds to make its money and that is not a good sign. History
shows that every country that did this in the past was on the way down hill.
If you add the fact that the only thing the US leads the world in is debt
you can see what our recent policies have done to us. We need to make big
changes, and fast.
Needing to do somthing [fast] and doing it are two very different
things, as the country is about to discover.

Even in the countries with high rates of manufacturing growth, it
has taken *AT LEAST* a generation to develop their infrastructure
[e.g. roads, power plants], vendor networks, supporting/secondary
firms, and an educated/trained workforce.

In many cases in the US, the buildings, equipment and machinery
used for manufacturing no longer exist, having been exported or
sold for scrap, the infrastructure, again roads and power, have
been allowed to deteriorate, the vendors and secondary supporting
firms no longer exist, and the educated/trained workforce has
either found other jobs [mainly in the service sector/retail
sales] or retired/died.

Perhaps the single most critical item, the orgazational memory
and informal methodology that are the basis of all successful
manufacturing has been destroyed, if not by
bankruptcy/liquidation, then by an endless series of
reorganizations, reengineerings, right sizings, downsizings, etc.

A close second it the total lack of trust and confidence by the
[potential] workforce in American management. The employees, or
their parents, have seen what management promises are worth, even
in the form of written contracts, as their pensions, 401ks,
retiree health benefits, etc. disappeared and their jobs were
eliminated.

While market forces may in fact be liquidating some obsolete
economic sectors and their companies, in far too many cases, the
process is being accelerated. exacerbated and exploited by
sociopathic individuals who already possess more money than they
and their children can ever spend.

FWIW -- having driven "manufacturing" into the ground, plundering
of corporations, including looting their pension plans, continues
and has moved on to other areas such as the media. For one
example see
-----------
Tribune Considering Filing for Bankruptcy Protection, WSJ Says

By Jennifer Sondag and Sarah Rabil

Dec. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Tribune Co., the newspaper publisher and
broadcaster taken private by billionaire Sam Zell last year, is
considering filing for bankruptcy protection, according to the
Wall Street Journal.
snip
Tribune continued talks with lenders to restructure its debt in
recent days, the Journal said. The Chicago-based company, saddled
with $11.8 billion in debt from the $8.3 billion buyout of the
company last December, has been cutting jobs and selling assets
including Long Island’s Newsday to reduce its obligations.
snip
-------------
for complete article see
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...QxM&refer=home

An ESOP [employee stock ownership plan] was the trojan horse used
in this particular case
-------------
snip
When the Tribune Company was purchased by Samuel Zell by utlizing
an ESOP, one question was how long would it take before the
litigation began. Today, that question was answered when a group
of current and former employees filed suit in the U.S. District
Court for the Central District of California. A copy of the
complaint is available here.
http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...ments/zell.pdf

The complaint is not a good read from a pension geek standpoint.
In 115 pages, the complaint failed to tell a clear ERISA-related
story typical of defined benefit plans which are converted to
ESOPs which then lead to litigation. I am hopeful that the
forthcoming motions to dismiss or motions for summary judgment
will provide more details about the frozen Tribune Company
Employees’ Pension Plan which was merged into the Times Mirror
Pension Plan which had an ESOP then merged into the Times Mirror
Savings Plan, and at some point these plans became the Tribune
ESOP.

A quick check of the filed Form 5500s reveal that these are not
small plans. For example, the Tribune Company Employee Stock
Ownership Plan for 2003 had over 11,000 participants and
beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune
Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in
assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500.
A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the
ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends.
snip
--------------
for complete article see
http://www.uslaw.com/library/Benefit...?item=23794 3


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).