retired54 wrote:
"Clot" wrote in message
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olddog wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message
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retired54 wrote:
"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
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In article
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"retired54" wrote:
we lost the war in iraq the day it started.
We won the war, what we are having problems with is winning the
peace. If you look at past history, this is not an unusual
occurrence is US history.
What did *you* win other than a huge national debt?
## We got to kill lots and lots of goblins. Priceless.
I've never been concerned with winning "freedom" for people just
because they happen to be sitting on a huge oil reserve.
## Germany invaded Russia for oil. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor so
the country could have uninterrupted access to oil in the Dutch
East Indies. Access to oil is a time-tested excuse for going to
war.
I'd rather win the war on "oil addiction". Your war just
perpetuates the life style of excess that our planet can't
sustain.
## Every time I hear someone long for a simpler time, a less
complicated life, a revel in the serenity of nature's basics, I
have one word: Dentistry.
Yeah you won.
Not yet. We don't have ALL the oil.
You really need to watch the Frontline episode "Heat". Dude...were
all screwed!
Keep hiding your head in the sand but it's going to catch up with
you or your kids. The earth can only support so many American life
styles. China, India and Micro Indonesia are taking over. Right now
they are going through the same growing pains America is still
growing through. Manhattan, Florida, parts of Texas, New Jersey
etc...are going to be under water. For Christ sake it's already
happening. Something is happening and if we don't wake up and
address it we're doomed. Personally, I hold little hope for the
future of mankind. Call me a kook but the evidence is here now.
Some people say technology holds the answer. I think we all need to
curb our expectations and learn how to live with less. Conserve,
recycle, move close to work or quit, walk to the store, ride your
bike. We're too damn fat anyway. Keep your appliances turn off or
down. Quit having so many damn babies. We don't have to rely on
technology for the answer when it's our over indulgent life styles
that is the problem.
I've drastically cut back on my gasoline, electrical and natural gas
usage by keeping lights off and the thermostat up high in the summer
and cooler in the winter. I'm always turning things off and
unplugging things. I walk to the store when possible. But I don't
see anybody else doing a god damn thing. They drive around in their
SUVs like nothings happening. They just don't get it and I don't
expect anything to change
I agree whole heartedly that we cannot go on consuming at the rate we
currently do in the west. I've used CFL lighting for more than 25
years and ensured that my home is well insulated, (UK and mostly
cold!). I switched to diesel powered motors more than 20 years ago,
walk and use a bicycle.
We have to limit our impact and set examples. China set an excellent
example with their one child policy and despite their growing
environmental impact, we have to recognise that their country is
presently the factory for the planet, i.e. we are exporting our
footprint to them.
The USA is not setting a good example. Europe is taking the lead in
reduction of green house gasses according to Frontline (pbs TV show)
because Europe historically has paid much higher prices for fuel.
Yes, I think you right about that. It's rather strange after CA took the
lead in the 70s. Having watched the programme, I now appreciate why.
The tax on road fuel in Europe is indeed much higher than in the US which I
think is a good thing. We have much more efficient and smaller vehicles as a
result. Sadly though, there has been (note the past tense) a growing trend
here for SUVs. Ignoring Land Rover that has always produced large off
roaders formerly for a practical purpose, Volvo (GM), VW, BMWand Merc are
now producing the things as well as an incredible amount of imported
Japanese pick-ups that do little to the gallon.
What I fail to understand is why US vehicle manufacturers wish to kill
themselves. Ford being the prime example producing massive large engined
trucks that no one wants and going down the tube as a result. In Europe they
have produced smaller much more efficient vehicles successfully for many
years. Similarly, GM. Why do they seem to have a death wish allowing
overseas competitors to steal the market? I understand that there is a
waiting list for diesel powered VW Jettas in the US market. Ford produce
Mondeos for the European market that are just as good.
Good for you guys. Don't wait for us because we still have that
Cowboy, throw-the-beer-can-out-the-window attitude going here. It's
actually encouraged. Read some of our colleagues posts and you'll see
what I mean.
Appreciated, but I hope (and suspect) you exaggerate a little.
I just shake my head and go about my business.
I wouldn't be too enthused about the Chinese. China and India are
building coal-fired power plants literally as fast as they can. China
overtook the United States in 2006 as the world's biggest emitter of
carbon dioxide.
I do appreciate you comments re China and India and recognise the issue
regarding coal fired power plants. They are just trying to catch up with us,
though obviously more aware of the impact than we were at the time.I worked
in Beijing for a short period in 2003 providing advice on infrastructure
prior to the Olympics. Interestingly, buses and trucks were running on LPG.
I suggested that their principal sewage works, being next to a coal fired
power station should send its sludge there but they were concerned about the
emissions. Whilst at an International Environment Conference in China in
2006, I as well as some local folk were surprised at the concern that some
of their politicians were expressing re environmental issues. I was most
pleased to find that the Beijing Municipal government had picked up on some
of my recommendations, appointing a US based consultancy to address their
sewage sludge issues. The intention was to use the material for cement
manufacture which is just right at present with their development of
infrastructure.
Watch " Heat".
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/heat/
What a rotten fellow you are. You hijacked my Friday night, for which I
thank you. That was a highly objective programme with key players being
prepared to be interviewed. Brilliant, well done PBS. Reminded me of what
the BBC could do in former days.