On Oct 24, 12:21*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
N8N wrote:

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Feith, and others understand this. Obama,
Biden, Pelosi, Carter, and others of the left do not.

Oh, yes, if I want examples of functional, intelligent foreign policy,
I'm going to turn to people like Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld.

Couldn't you come up with some examples of people who have not been
dismal failures?

Sure. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Feith. Actually, anybody who claims to be
a neoconservative.

I guess it depends on your definition of success. In my definition,
foreigners don't get a vote and success depends entirely on what's in the
best interests of the United States. I am indifferent in the extreme whether
the French have their feelings hurt or the Minoans are miffed. I measure
success by how many enemies of this great republic, their wives, children,
and goats die a horrible death (preceded, if possible, by piteous
lamentations), not the readings on some imaginary "Love Meter."

To paraphrase Admiral Halsey: "Kill terrorists. Kill terrorists. Kill more
terrorists!"

But, being fair, I can see how to those who value - nay, depend - on the
approbation of others will have a different metric (to use a Rumsfeld word)
in measuring "success."

What metric do you use to describe the neocons' "success?"

I can't think of a single one that works.

They certainly have been responsible for the deaths of some terrorists
and potential terrorists. they have also been responsible for the
deaths of many of our young men and women, and those of our allies,
and destabilizing an already volatile country. they have also been
responsible for the creation of many more terrorists. they have also
bankrupted our country and destroyed our moral standing in the
international community.

If that's success, I want less of it. I find it hard to even speak
the word "neoconservative" without using the same tone of voice that
they use when speaking the term "liberal." More than anything else
they have destroyed the conservative movement or at least gravely
wounded it and have assured a Democratic victory in the upcoming
Presidential election.

nate