On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:20:18 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

F. George McDuffee wrote:

It all depends what "job" they were attempting to do.

It is a fundamental error, and one that I am frequently guilty
of, to assume the "elite" has the same objectives and indeed the
same view of reality as the vast majority of voters.

It may well be that the "elite" has a brilliant plan, and one
that is succeeding beyond their wildest dreams, but this is
unknown, because if any such plan exists the "mission statement"
and the supporting "policies and procedures manuals" are closely
guarded "state" secrets.

Fortunately, I think they ran out of time. (Well, there's actually
almost 3 months left, let's HOPE they are out of time!) The plan is
awfully close to Marie Antoinette's "let hem eat cake" line! Mainly, to
hell with the peasants, as long as the current-day counterparts to J. P.
Morgan and such are doing fine, they just don't care. The tax plans are
a sure sign of that. We should be making sure that companies cannot be
based in the US, selling tons of products in the US, but come tax time
they say they are based in the Cayman Islands or whatever, and owe no
taxes. The list of ways to cheat the tax man goes on forever, if you
can afford a personal banker and accountant.

Jon
===========
I think you are most likely correct.

There does not appear to be any master plan to screw the
US/global economy into the ground, just super incompetence and
nothing but "good news" for the bosses, i.e. s**t happens.

I base this on the observation that many of the people
accountable for the mess have suffered paper losses on the stocks
they held in their firms [didn't these people ever here of
diversification?] in the tens to hundreds of millions of dollar
range, with a few like Greenberg [AIG] having losses into the
billions. If there had been a plan, they would have not suffered
these losses, would have shifted most of their assets out of US
control, and would have made better preparation for a *VERY*
comfortable life in countries without extradition treaties with
the US.

On the other had it appears equally plausible that a few people
got extra greedy and started skimming excessively, bringing the
entire system down, or that you had some "young turks" who wanted
"a piece of the action," took it, and there was simply not enough
juice in the system to go around.

It is depressing to note that other than applying huge hot money
poultices to the economic problems using taxpayer money,
*NOTHING* has been done in the way of identifying actual root
causes, and enacting regulations to prevent their
continuation/reoccurance.

For example, the SEC refusal to reinstate the "uptick" rule for
short selling. Derivatives and the derivatives markets must be
standardized and regulated, and draconian controls on excessive
leverage must be implemented if the "free market" is to be
anything but a suicide pact in the new century.

Your observation about tax evasion/avoidance appears directly on
target. One way around this is called "unitary taxation." When
California attempted to implement this many years ago because of
the proliferation of out-of-state/out-of-country businesses [e.g.
BP, Barclays] using transfer pricing to shift income to low/no
tax jurisdictions, the US government had a hissyfit. Basically
"unitary taxation" says that if a company does 50% of its
unified/consolidated business in a given tax jurisdiction, then
50% of its unified/consolidated income was earned in that
jurisdiction, and subject to that jurisdictions regulations and
tax rates. This is not a new problem, but dates as far back as
the railroads.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...v84/ai_3329237
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...55/ai_n6049567
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m..._/ai_n18303264
FWIW -- the two largest companies in Texas, Dell and Southwest
Bell Telephone largely escape paying state franchise taxes [no
state income tax] by income shifting to their Delaware
affiliates.
---------
snip
The fine print in the Texas corporate franchise-tax law now
allows Texas companies to use a maneuver involving Delaware
subsidiaries and limited liability partnerships to practically
avoid paying the state franchise tax on most of their assets.
(The Texas franchise tax--set at 0.25% of a company's taxable
capital in Texas or 4.5% of its earned surplus, whichever is
greater--is the closest thing Texas has to a corporate income
tax.)
snip
--------
for complete article click on
http://www.forbes.com/2003/04/30/cz_ae_0430beltway.html

It is particularly galling to me to realize that the major
financial firms, and firms with major financial operations, now
with their snouts in the public "bailout" trough up to their ears
have systematical avoided, if not evaded, paying their fair share
of taxes for years.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).