Upscale wrote:
"Tim Daneliuk" wrote in message

OK. Fair enough. I happen to have direct experience with
the healthcare system in Canada
They are not enthused by the system. By *their* testimony
(not my opinion - theirs), the system is bloated, inefficient,

And as a Canadian so do I. My experience is and was directly on a
professionally basis for many years and also for many years as a person in
dire need of medical care. If I lived in the US, the only way I'd get
sufficient medical care to actually survive would be for my living status to
be reduced that of a person of abject poverty living totally on the welfare
system. I don't call that living. Criticise the Canadian system as much as

Utter nonsense. People at or below the poverty line get medical care
on a regular basis in the US without regard for their ability to pay.
Witness the many gunshot victims that are treated in ER trauma all over
the US daily, for example. You don't know what you're talking about.

you and your relatives want Tim, but don't for one second try state that the
US system is better until you've actually experienced multiple, long term,
medical difficulties.

It is flatly better for *most* people but there are exceptions.
I don't see a giant rush of wealthy Europeans and Asians going to
Canada for treatment of serious illness. The Canadian system is
good, but does not attract the best medical folk, acts very slowly
for people whose problems are painful but not life threatening and
places government bureaucrats in charge of the medical process.


Note that when people need the best possible care, they don't fly
to Canada, Norway, Sweden, UK, or Germany. They come to the US
most of the time. There is a reason for this. The reason is
that the profit motive brings the best and brightest to the playing
field.

And, that profit motive limits that best possible care solely to those who
have the money to pay for it. It certainly is not available to those of
middle or lower income. Is that the kind of medical system you'd like to see
in Canada? God help you in that kind of system if you become seriously ill.

I am happy to voluntarily contribute to causes the help the
genuinely underprivileged ... and I do, as do millions of
Americans.

And I say to you again, to benefit from that kind of system, you have to
become genuinely underprivileged to benefit from it. Imagine, working all
your life to achieve a certain level of comfort and then suddenly becoming
sick or getting into a serious accident. In the US system, all you've worked

It happens here all the time and people do get care. They just don't
get the same care as, say, Bill Gates. So what? Your Candadian
wealthy don't wait for the national healthcare system when they have
a serious problem either. They come.... here.

for all your life is suddenly snatched away from you to pay for your
survival and then what's next when you eventually wind up broke?

Everyone ends up broke ... and dead.


I am unwilling to see *my* care diminished to help
those whose problems are repetitive and largely self induced.

Those self induced problems as you state it are a matter of opinion. There
isn't a person on this world who doesn't partake in some type of dangerous
or unhealth acts, you included. Exactly who is to state what is dangerous
and what isn't? Almost everything anyone does on a daily basis can be termed
unhealthy at some point or another.

How about drug abusers with HIV and AIDS? How about people who
never exercise, eat a horrible diet, and then drain the system
while they die by inches? The list of this sort of thing is endless
and demonstrates one of the many reasons that communist healthcare
punishes the responsible and rewards the irresponsible.


every year? I think I'd prefer the Benz driving doc because
it signifies some level of financial achievement, and probably
some level of skill. But that's just me ...

I'd prefer the Benz doctor too if I could get him to treat me, but that
wouldn't be likely would it? I can tell from the way that you're talking

It would in the US. I am not wealthy, but I've certainly been treated
by wealthy doctors here as have any number of friends and family. Profit
motivated business rewards *everyone* with its efficiencies and economies
of scale. It just doesn't reward them *equally*.

that you've never really experience anything close to a long term, seriously
affecting illness. Oh sure, maybe you've talked to people or read a bit, but
until you've actually experienced what it's like to be on both sides of the
fence, don't for one second think that you actually know what you're talking
about.

You are the clueless one here. I *have* seen exactly what you describe
up close and personal. I have watched a great many people of limited
or middle class means get excellent care in the US. The only people
crying for nationalized healthcare here are those who either want
something they have never earned or want a "get out of jail free" card
for their personal behaviors.


I for one, am glad that I'm part of and benefiting from the Canadian medical
system. Sure, like any other system it isn't perfect and there's always room
for improvement. Am I being selfish? Damned right I am. I want to survive as
much as the next person and I'd like being able to do so with a certain
level of self respect. That wouldn't happen in the US system.

In the past, I've been offered well paying jobs in the US and I've always
turned them down because of what it would cost to pay for my medical needs.
The reality is that I'd be working to survive in the US while up here in
Canada at least I can work to live with some hope. There's a big difference
between the two.




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Tim Daneliuk
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