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Roger Roger is offline
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Default Calculating your carbon footprint - a load of ********

The message
from Terry Fields contains these words:

There is indeed a strong link between Solutrean artifacts and very
similar items in America and there is some mitochondrial DNA linkage
between several native American tribes and some modern European groups
but as with any hypothesis for which there is absolutely no evidence
there is some dispute about whether the the Solutreans ever made it from
Europe to America at all let alone whether they did it by land or sea.
Nor that they used kayaks.


In that case, the BBC TV programme that showed the DNA traces was a
load of rubbish.


Thanks for your input.


Not a program I ever remember watching but have you any evidence that
DNA relating to the Solutreans or native Americans of similar antiquity
has ever been extracted?


The US scientist who was following this showed the DNA traces, and
again AFAIIA they have not been seriously challenged.


See above. Where have I said that they have?

The programme was about the 'Clovis point spear', which was first
discovered in North America. Later, it was related to the identical
spear-point developed by the Salutrians, but 10,000 years previously.


You are really getting very careless Terry. Hand made artifacts are
never identical, even when made by the same hand. What seems convincing
is the technique for making the spear points which was the same and more
sophisticated than what followed on in Europe. The 10,000 years you use
is also way out.

The search was on for a connection between the Salutrians and North
America, and it was some time before the scientist, who was working on
other programs at the time, realised that he had not only the DNA from
the Salutrians (or possible their descendents, I can't recall which),
but that it was matched by that of a single tribe of NA Indians, the
inplication being that the Salutrians took their spear-point design to
North America.


So the real Terry Field is coming out of the shadows regurgitating half
remembered 'facts' gleaned from a TV program when a quick google would
have shown how wrong said 'facts' are.

But 20,000 years ago, the ice-cap stretched from France to NA, and
gave rise to the speculation that the Salutrians, who lived in a style
much like the Innuit, could have paddled along the edge of the
ice-cap.


Solutrean BTW, not Salutrian. Sticking to your wrong spelling is a
further demonstration of how impervious you are to reality.

The BBC is good at turning supposition into concrete fact - vis walking
with dinosaurs.


You've just shot down the BBC's programme shown last Sunday, that set
out to show how fake the anti-global-warming debate is, and which was
mentioned earlier in this thread.


As for alternative routes for DNA, the obvious one is a minor European
contamination of the largely Asian DNA of the Native Americans.


The possibility of contamination wasn't mentioned in the programme, so
I can't comment.


Technically not contamination but I was looking for a short way of
expressing a very minor element in the genetic make-up of modern native
Americans.

From Wikipedia:

"In addition, certain mtDNA anomalies in pre-Columbian Amerind
populations leave open the possibility of alternate migration patterns
into the Americas. Geneticist Douglas Wallace of Emory University,
studying the mitochondrial DNA of Native Americans, found an mtDNA type
called X. Geneticist Stephen Oppenheimer reports that X occurs 'only
among Europeans and Native Americans, with a single report from southern
Siberia, but the link between the Old and New Worlds is up to 30,000
years old'[3]. However, the most recent study of complete genomes
suggests a single founding population, including type X, arriving via
the Beringia route from Asia.[4]

In short, the idea of a Clovis-Solutrean link remains rather
controversial and does not enjoy wide acceptance. The hypothesis is
challenged by large gaps in time between the Clovis and Solutrean eras,
a lack of evidence of Solutrean seafaring, lack of specific Solutrean
features in Clovis technology, and other issues."

--
Roger Chapman