Morris Dovey wrote:
SNIP
You have not made a case - rather you have made a weak and unconvincing
argument, even within just the context of your own society and culture.
The fact that you do not grasp and/or agree with my case doesn't mean
I haven't made it. I shall not repeat it because - as you point out -
loud repetition cannot prove something to people with fingers in their
ears.
SNIP
Your "reason and logic" is simply one perspective that others may or may
not share. More, or louder, words do not make your message more
convincing. If you wish to end the practice of abortion, then words,
logic, and even legislation will not suffice - to accomplish that you
will need to remove its root causes, and I seriously doubt that you'd be
willing even to undertake the effort to discover all of those, let alone
put forth the effort to design a comprehensive strategy to effect the
necessary societal changes. Instead, as I said earlier, you find a way
to tolerate what you don't like.
I am bounded by law which prevents the underlying causes from being
fixed. The only way to ameliorate them is to have the laws changed
hence the focus on the elected officials. I think even you must grasp
that abortion's root cause is unwanted conception. Aside from rape and
incest (very minor parts of the abortion demographic), unwanted
conception is caused fundamentally by a lack of personal
responsibility. The only way to fix that is to insist that people *be*
personally accountable for their actions. Abortion does the exact
opposite. It is a "get out of jail free card" for the sexually
irresponsible and/or promiscuous person. The way to thus "fix" the
underlying problem is to both make abortion illegal (other than for a
very short time after conception for cases of rape and incest) AND
hold *both* parents accountable before the law for the wellbeing of
the consequent child. If they fail to do so and the society is forced
to step in and pick up the tab on behalf of the child, the condition
of so doing should be the sterilization of both parents. Not *forced*
sterilization mind you, simply a condition of getting taxpayers to
help them. The parents in question would have to option to go to jail
with their reproductive parts intact as a punishment for failing to
act responsibly toward a human that cannot care for itself.
Like I said, that won't happen, because the
larger society is full of irresponsible twits who want what they
haven't earned and don't want responsibility for what they actually
*have* done.
3) You evidently skipped the part in high school civics in which it
explained that government is formed first to keep people free.
We appeal to those who govern not to "supply the blood, sweat, and
tears" but to act to defend liberty. Appealing to government on
behalf
of those whose liberty is ripped from them before they can even speak
is not an act of cowardice (implicitly accused in your scratchings
above), but an normal act of a free citizen.
On the other hand, one need not limit oneself to appealing to those who
govern - and then washing one's hands saying: "I've done all I can do."
I wouldn't have labeled it 'cowardice' (but you can if you see it that
way) - I would have labeled it 'detachment' sufficient to make "not
tolerate" questionable.
Yes, your snide tone was already noted. But, pray tell, just *what* should
we be doing beyond demanding the elimination of abortion from our culture?
I stand ready to be schooled and corrected. If there is something that
is both ethical (e.g., does not rely on robbing some citizens by force
of government to implement) and legal (e.g., does not require acts of violence
or force) that would make a difference, I'd love to hear it. I probably won't
comment as it is not my habit to reveal what causes I do- and do not support
financially or otherwise, but I do await your condescending wisdom with
bated breath.
4) You have NO idea just what I have- and have not personally done to
try and remediate evil of the sort you mention above. I feel no
particular reason to provide you with a list as it is none of your
business. What I do know is that when backed into a corner, people
with lousy ideas (like yours) always go after the speaker with whom
they disagree because they cannot defend their own ideas. Game, set,
match.
Nor would I be particularly interested in reading any such list - just
as you have neither interest nor knowledge of my ideas and actions
(which renders your opinion fairly worthless).
Because, of course, until one has read the list of your deep virtue,
one's opinions simply cannot be important.
I can understand that you might choose to the the sole arbiter of
'lousiness' as well - and I'm perfectly willing to concede your superior
knowledge of how it might be most fully practiced.
I am *one* of the arbiters of lousy *ideas*. I got that way by
studying and reading a breadth of thinkers who wrote over a breath of
times and human experiences and who were all my intellectual betters.
I do not claim special knowledge or even superior knowledge. I just
don't think it takes a whole lot of deep thought to realize that -
given the very lax abortion laws we have today - some abortions are
murder. Given that, I am horrified that more people aren't horrified
by it.
What is especially fascinating about this is that the drooly
progressives and lefties who so overwhelmingly support abortion
"rights" would just come unglued if only a single modifier were inserted
in front of the word "fetus". Instead of the right of a woman to abort
a "fetus", it was "black fetus", "female fetus", "asian fetus" and so
forth, they'd be screaming about it as a hate crime against a
particular racial or identity group. I guess when you are happy to
kill *all* fetuses, then there no longer exists any hate.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/