"flip top nut case "

** Characteristic impedance IS ALWAYS independent of cable length.

Cos it IS a " characteristic " of the cable and depends only on how it
is made and the frequency.

The "characteristic impedance" is the impedance above the transition
region.


** Figure 7 SHOWS it is a valid parameter at all frequencies.


Quoting your source: "The characteristic impedance which is normally
listed in a cable catalog is this constant high frequency impedance."


** Which contradicts YOU - 100%.


The 'hundreds of ohms' comes
from the cable manufacturer's graph depicting what they claim is the
'characteristic impedance' of 'other' speaker cables.

** A perfectly correct set of graphs.

Characteristic impedance (or Zo) rises at lower frequencies for all normal
cable types - the transition frequency is often in the middle of the
audio
band.

I never said the graphs were 'wrong'.


** Yes you did, you flip head liar - you said it was "cow patty",



It's cow patty because the line cord, and speaker cables, are too
short to behave as 'transmission lines'.


** All cables act as transmission lines - whether short or long.

Nope,


** WRONG - again.



Only the ( electrically) short ones do not support standing waves.

Which is necessary for the impedance to matter.


** COMPLETELY WRONG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It matters in OTHER WAYS !!!!!!!!!!!




The topic was the toaster.


** Nothing but a ridiculous RED HERRING.


Remember, you just said "all cables" so the
question still remains for you to answer why the power cord works
instead of reflecting the power back from impedance mismatch.


** That is your own utterly mad, totally wrong idea.



Phil will still want you to 'match' the 10 inch run inside the speaker
cab, though, because he's still maintaining, to this day, the idiotic
notion that length makes NO 'difference' to the 'characteristic
impedance'.

** Fraid that " notion " is a inescapable fact of nature

Let me be more precise.


** Lets take flip head off to a cliff and drop him over...................




--------------------------------

This article from Belden ( famous US cable maker) on cable Zo ( at high
and
low frequencies) is free of the gross errors seen in the ones " flip top
head" selected:

http://www.belden.com/pdfs/Techpprs/ciocahalf.htm

Interesting that the rise in Zo at low frequencies depends mainly on the
resistance of the conductors. The " transition frequency " varies widely,
but can be in the middle of the audio band or lower for twisted pair of
figure 8 cables.
See figure 7 for tests on REAL twisted pair cables.

I like these bits too:

" The characteristic impedance (Zo) of a cable is **independent of
length**,
so obviously these measurements do not yield the characteristic impedance.
"

And ...

" If the infinitely long cable is cut to some finite length and the far
end
of this cable is connected to a capacitor-resistor combination which is
assembled and found to be equal to the characteristic impedance, an
astounding discovery is made. The impedance measured looking into the
cable
which is terminated at the far end with its matching characteristic
impedance (the capacitor-resistor combination) is still the same as it was
for the infinitely long cable! Cut the cable to *any length* and if the
termination at the far end is unchanged and the frequency is unchanged, no
difference in the measured impedance will be noticed. "

---------------------------


That is all well and good except they are presuming ....


** No they are not !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


here's a simple rule:


** Yeah - flip top is a totally autistic nut case.


Yes it has a 'characteristic impedance' and yes the impedance rises
dramatically at low frequency and if you had a 100 mile long cable,
where it *would* act like (be) a transmission line, you'd care but, to
re quote Belden, "it doesn't matter" at speaker cable lengths.

** Blatant fake quote.

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.....


Referring back up to the first comment about 'characteristic
impedance', the paper also explains "You can see that, at low
frequencies, there is no "characteristic" impedance. It is always
changing. "

** Another blatant fake quote.

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

What a desperate CHARLATAN !!!!





....... Phil