On Aug 31, 12:11*pm, dpb wrote:
phil scott wrote:
On Aug 31, 10:38 am, dpb wrote:
Mac Cool wrote:
I'm in North Carolina so the weather is relatively mild. I would like to
switch to a heat pump. According tohttp://hes.lbl.gov/hes/about.html, I
could conservatively save about $1600/year on heating alone. I was as
thorough as possible when completing the survey. Last year my hvac guy, a
friend of the family, told me I wouldn't recoup the cost of replacing the
propane but I'm spending thousands each winter on propane. My propane
company has kept the price right at the break even point with electric, or
a little higher when it gets cold. The central unit is 7-8 years old,
propane heat/electric ac.
I'm going to sit down and discuss this with him next week. What are my
concerns and what questions should I ask?
Where in NC? *There's quite a difference between the coast and, say,
Asheville...

I'd consider the geothermal -- in TN (Knoxville area) it cut our power
usage as compared to an air-exchange heat pump by almost two-thirds.
It'll take somewhat longer to recoup as installation is higher but if
it's a long-term residence, certainly worth the investigation imo. *And
remember, it's a benefit in the A/C season as well as the heat sink is
as important as the source. *(BTW, w/ my experience, I'm sold on the
WaterFurnace brand for geothermal.)

I'd think it would be nearly impossible to go wrong but it does depend
on the length of time for recouping then gaining net overall. *But, many
utilities have special rates for heating/cooling usage as compared to
regular residential and there may be some (albeit minor) tax credits
possible as well to help offset a little as well.

--

your figures on geo thermal are *close... *you are assuming the thing
will have a long enough life cycle to pay off. * many do not, counting the service calls etc,.. they never
pay off. 10 years is a long time for a heat pump to last... for that
reason, as a rule, i dont recommend geo thermal..... industrial or
large commcl appllcations using heavy cast iron compressors have 20
to 40 year life cycles.. maybe geo thermal is a real good idea in
those cases.

I can think of cases were I would however.. the installing contractor
needs to be an actual pro.. rare breeds those.

All of the above are why I am sold on WaterFurnace.

The unit was installed about 15 years ago, perhaps even a little
earlier, I don't recall the exact year any longer. *The house was sold
in '00, the current owner has told me more than once how pleased they
are with it...

W/ energy prices unlikely to retrench greatly, it only makes the payback
period shorter.

I'll stick w/ the recommendation that it's worth investigating...

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energy is going a lot higher, real incomes are going a lot lower...
saving energy is crucial.

My take on the water furnace is this... Ive been in the business 40
years. WATER FURNANCES ARE TERRIFFIC! If they are installed
correctly, your local water is not too hard, or corrosive, your local
contractor has good talent working for them (not common) and you are
lucky.

If not, the service, repair and replacement costs can eat you
ALIVE... this system you are talking about is 15years old. thats
about 5 years past the normal life cycle for a water furnace. The
owner will have to factor savings in with the replacement costs.
Hopefully they will do what the Marriotte hotel chain does (and those
guys are penny pinchers).. they will replace it at first glitch.
(Marriotte wont spend a dime on anything over 10 years old as a
rule).. Not spend thousands on repairs first, then replace it.

***

There are many options. Ive listed them, the pro's and cons. Your
mileage may vary... it always does. One thing that never varies
though, the more complex any system is, the more nodes there are for
failure and the more service it needs over a life time. The water
furnace is an exceedingly complex piece of equipment.


Here is a story for you...about the first heat pumps... 'Typhoon
corp'... real junk, complex as hell, and in the early days they all
used a buggy tranfer valve, the O rings in it tended to leak and wear
out.

I was a young man at the time...went on a service call to an old lady
that had two of them..both over grown with weeds, vines and debris....
had been working perfectly for at least 10 years... no way I had ever
seen that before, but one of them had failed. Blown fuse. I
replaced it... they were still running 5 years later, no service at
all.

so there ya ago....

that experience and proven record of extreme reliabilty did not make
Typoon viable... they were already out of business when I did that
service call. The exception does not make the rule.


What works in one area, especially with ground source heat pumps
(water furnace is a brand name for that application), will fail within
months in another. ..or work even better in another area... or with
the same geology but a crappy contractor never even get off the
ground ...


Any recommendation for anything needs to have the relevant caveat's.





Phil scott