On Aug 25, 10:09*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:44:28 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Aug 25, 6:07*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:09:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Aug 25, 2:32*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 08:17:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Aug 25, 8:14*am, Bubba wrote:

There is another do it your self group that frequently has questions
and complaints about them but it also criticises and decries our North
American practice of having a hot water storage tank either heated,
electrically, by gas or from a heating furnace.

230 x 25 amps = 5750 watts. And they only use electricity while water
is being used.

And that is going to supply hot water in sufficient quantity to do
exactly what? * *He's got one tank type now that supplies his entire
house. * With typical incoming water temps in winter in most parts of
the US, 5750watts isn't going to supply enough hot water for even a
decent shower.

Which is why you rarely, if ever, see an electric tankless used as a
whole house solution.

I guess you dont get out much trader.

And I guess you failed simple math. * The poster claimed:

"230 x 25 amps = 5750 watts. And they only use electricity while water
"
is being used."

To which I stated that 5750 watts isn't going to supply enough hot
water for even a decent shower. * From your own link, it takes 100
AMPS to get a 73 degree temp rise at 2.25 gallons a minute. * At 50
AMPS, the lowest AMP heater in the chart, you get a whopping 36 degree
temp rise at 2.25 gallons a minute. * *So, with incoming water of even
50 deg, you wind up with 86 deg heated water.

Do the math anyway you want, and as I stated, at 25 amps, you aren't
going to run a shower, much less an entire house, which was what the
OP was trying to do. *The electric tankless, by the spec sheet you
provided, are only claimed to be practical for the southern US with
80AMPS. * For the rest of the US they need 100 to 150 amps.

Now, how many homes have an extra 100 to 150 amps available for a
water heater? * And would you advocate using an electric tankless to
heat water when the OP has natural gas available, which in virtually
all cases is going to be cheaper?

Just because manufacturers make them, don't mean they are popular.
Maybe I overstated the case by saying you rarely, if ever, see them
used. * Let me restate it by saying in the vast majority of cases they
are impractical compared to other readily available solutions. *And
here in NJ, I've seen lots of new homes recently. *A few had tankless,
but every one of them was nat gas tankless. *I did not see a single
electric tankless.

Nice math you did there. So impressive. And YES, you did overstate
your case like all you EE's do all the time. I didnt care what
electric he has in his home.

Sure, just ignore the math and *that the typical service is 100-200
amps and that in most of the US, to have any reasonable output from an
electric whole house on demand water heater is in excess of 100 AMPS.
So what if the OP has to get a new higher amp service from the street,
a new panel, *pay for that installation cost, it doesn't come out of
YOUR pocket, right?

I cant help it if you live in a trailer. Believe it or not there are a
LOT of people out there with money.

And that has exactly what to do with how practical or common it is to
find whole house electric tankless water heaters?

Wow! You are dense. It appears you dont live in an area where anyone
has anything "above average". Your loss. You should get out once in a
while.

I install and service it for them
everyday. How about a home with 7 GeoThermal systems! Yes, thats a
home. It is commonplace.

Now you're really showing who's seriously out of touch. *A home with 7
GeoThermal systems is common? * LOL.

Tell me where I said it is "common". Now it appears you cant read
either.

It's quoted right above for you. * Here it is again,exactly what you
posted:

"How about a home with 7 GeoThermal systems! Yes, thats a home. It is
commonplace."

Trader, It is common in the city it is in. Mega money town. Its about
20-25 mins from my town. In my town only one Geo per home is common.
Again, only 20 mins away is a totally different world than where I
live. It seems to be something you cant quite seem to grasp.


I can grasp that you're so deceptive that you won't even give us an
idea of what city or state you're living in. Of course, if you did
so, then it would be much easier for folks to evaluate your bogus
claims, determine what energy really costs and figure out that you're
full of baloney.






By the way, around here, lots of people have actual full size
pools in their home. Not a pool in a screened in enclosure but in
their basement. Ive got one that even has one on his roof. Some have
basketball courts. Unfortunately, I dont have that kind of money but
sure is neat to see how the other half live. Very nice customers too.
They dont haggle over $100.

And again, this has zippo to do with electric tankless water heaters.

And again, just trying to get you to step out of your own little world
in a trailer and understand that there are many people out there that
can afford a whole house on demand electric water heater. Also lots of
people than can afford to pay to heat no only their home but also
there outdoor sidewalk and driveway to melt the snow.





Boggles my mind everyday but its there, it
happens and people have the money to pay for it..

And this has what again to do with the thread? *

Because you cant seem to get it through your pea-brained head that
other people live better than you. MUCH MUCH better. Your little
postage stamp of the world is just a spec.

I would say you can't get it through your head that living better has
very little to do with electric tankless water heaters. * Maybe that's
on your dream list of things you want to have, but clearly not on most
normal people's radar map.

Well, it certainly appears you cant afford one. It seems that as you
say it isnt common because it is considered too expensive.

So now we're back to it's not common. Good to see you finally agree.


Obviously,
too expensive for you but not for others. Does that make you jealous?
Get over it.



Again, it's not that it's too expensive. It's that it's expensive
and IMPRACTICAL compared to other readily available solutions. Even
if you don't care about costs, in the vast majority of cases, there
are far more practical solutions, like gas tankless or large or
multiple storage tank solutions.


I asked you, who claim to be knowledgable and in the trade, a direct
question that was the point of the whole thread you did not answer:

"So, what should the OP do? He needs to replace a 50 gallon natural
gas storage unit. He's considering going down to a 40. And you
say,
he should do exactly what? Put in an electric tankless? Simple
question, in most cases like this is it practical and cost effective
to put in an electric tankless for the whole single family house, yes
or no? "














You claim to be in
the trade.

Hey, you finally got something right.

*The OP stated the situation. *He currently has a single
50 gal natural gas water heater in his single family home hat he needs
to replace. * He's considering moving down to a 40 gallon to save a
bit. * How many customers have you had in that situation that went to
an electric tankless? * And if there are any, please tell us how many
amps and how it fit into the overall electric capacity of the house.
And how much time would you spend scoping out and quoting a customer
an electric tankless install in that situation?

Of course it isnt an everyday occurance.

Gee, a minute a go electric tankless was a common thing in a single
family home. * So were 7 geo themal systems.

Yes, it is common around my area. Step OUT of the box trader.


And again, unlike you, most of us here aren't afraid to say where "our
area" is, because we're honest and have no need to hide. When you
hide, you can make up demographics, incomes, energy costs, climate,
anything you want.










But you made it out that it
never happens. Again, you were wrong and you cant stand to admit it.

I already gave you my answer. * It may happen, but it's rare.

No actually what you said was:
***Which is why you rarely, if ever, see an electric tankless used as
a whole house solution.****
You should learn to "Never say Never". It will always bite you in the
ass.

Yes, and I corrected that in the very next post *to "Let me restate it
by saying in the vast majority of cases they
are impractical compared to other readily available solutions. "
Which I stand by.

You're mighty big on restating. They usually call that
"back-peddling". That seems to be one thing I found that you are quite
good at.

You on the other hand, chose to go on the attack on me. * You even had
the gall to try to hurl insults because I did the simple math that
showed the post that started all this discussion of electric tankless
whole house was full of baloney. * That poster went through an example
suggesting a system using 25 amps, which any damn fool knows is off by
on the order of 4 to 6 times. * * *You let that go by the wayside, but
jump on me, for pointing out the simple physics don't work out. * That
obviously is beyond your math level, which is why you feel the need to
slam engineers.

MyMy Trader. This is the internet. You I thought would have learned by
now to put on your magic underwear and be prepared for a little heated
discussion once in a while and not whine so much. Its only words.
Believe it or not you will survive. If you cant handle the heat, grow
a set of balls or run out of here with your tail between your legs and
dont let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. Ive not heard
such whinner in a long time. Get over it.



Yes, it's the internet, where posters like you are unfortunately all
too common. I'll let others judge who is the deceptive poster who
often turns what were valid discussion threads into flame wars by
going on the attack for no reason.