On Aug 21, 10:04 am, Charlie Self wrote:

To pick a couple nits: I'm not sure that high speed running for
however long would be a really valid test. What might work is some
weighted device to hold the sander in contact with a surface being

SNIP

I wasn't trying to design a test, just make a point. But then again,
you help make mine. Your idea sounds like an intelligent test, one
that could have useful results. I would really appreciate any "lab
test" that would take the time to see how a tool performed over a
period of time.

Yes, we know that a Stuttgart 450 SEL Super Sand will leave a better
end product out of the box than a middle range priced sander. But
how will that sander hold up after some real use? Is the extra
scratch worth it? As with many, I literally wear tools out or rebuild
them, so I am constantly balancing performance first, price second.

My Milwaukee tools are a good example. They used to be a 30 - 40%
premium over other "professional" tools. But worth every damn penny.
I have many of their tools and while some aren't my favorites in use,
their dependability is unquestioned.

But how are we to know these things now? Spending money doesn't mean
a good tool anymore. Relying on old reputations doesn't mean anything
anymore. With all the cross tied ownerships and most tools being
little more than a collection of assembled parts from around the
world, who knows what to buy? Without significant, practical testing,
we have to rely on word of mouth (dicey - I have a friend that thinks
the reason DeWalt tools are yellow is because they are the gold
standard) which isn't necessarily a good thing.

Pro or hobby guy, people that spend a lot of money on tools aren't
likely to express their dissatisfaction or their mistakes.

With drills, it's easier, especially if you can figure a
way to automate the testing. But I'd just run each drill until the
fully charged battery stopped doing its job. Do the same with each
drill. Zing. You got the holes per charge, at least for that
particular size hole. Your arm falls off the next day, of course.

A good test. My Sears Professional Drill 14.4v (that refuses to die)
for which I paid the princely sum of $52 bucks at their reconditioning
outlet will outdrive my DeWalt in a toe to toe test. How
embarrassing. I paid $229 for the DeWalt when I bought it.

I only bought the drill because I needed a backup, but I mentioned to
a buddy of mine how impressed I was with the battery life and torque.
He had bought the same drill on my advice and coming up from a B&D, he
chided me about using the Sears drill in the first place. He loved
his drill, and compared to the Sears, the DeWalt feels better in the
hand, and seems more well balanced.

But, boys will be boys. Controversy ensued, and we decided to find
out just how good our drills were.

The lab test: Two fully charged new drills, a 5# box of 1 1/2"
drywall screws, a couple of hard pine studs, and two six packs of cold
beer.

The bet (which spawned the test): My Sears drill could drive within
25% of the total number of screws the DeWalt could.

We lit the barbecue. We then put the 2x4s on some sawhorses and got
after it, driving the bugle headed screws until just flush. On
battery one, the Sears drill out drove the DeWalt by about 20 screws.
My amigo decided that he probably had a harder 2x4, and that was the
difference.

So we flipped over the 2x4s and exchanged them so I now had the
"harder" 2x4. This time the Sears drill outperformed it by only about
10 - 12 screws.

Total screws drilled per battery were in the 225 range, which was done
in the worst way for the drill and the batteries, nonstop.

It was embarrassing for both of us, since we both had the same
DeWalts. How could a Sears drill outperform such a well respected
brand? Why did I pay that much for DeWalt drill? I took mine back
and got a refund. He kept his because he had to beg his wife for the
dough to spend that much on a drill.

And the drill that wouldn't die is still in my truck tool box, still
going strong 4 years after its purchase. It is still a little
unwieldy, still a little unbalanced, and all lettering, logos, and
markings are long gone. It is scratched up badly, the keyless chuck
is a bit bent, and it has sealers and caulk all over it. But it works
every time I pull it out of the box.

When my last DeWalt 18v drill died after about 3 years of pretty good
use, I haven't seen any need to replace this drill. The backup is now
the main tool.

But my point is, that if a couple of knotheads at a Saturday barbecue
can come up with a valid test, why can't the magazines? We even
retested about a year later, and had about the same results. How hard
would that be to duplicate in a controlled lab environment?

And if it was your job and all you had to do was think things through
and be creative about how you tested drills, saws, etc., how hard
would it be to drive over to a cabinet shop, out to a job site, or
over to a furniture make and ask them what they find to be the most
important features of a tool?

Fit, finish, overall
appearance. It doesn't seem as if those should matter much, especially
the last two, but over the years, I've found that most of the
manufacturers who provide a good looking saw with a well done finish
also provide other quality features.

I know you were speaking in context of saws, but in the overview, I
think that is true of most tools. Either they are manufactured with
care, concern and pride, or they aren't. I think the big reveal comes
when you first examine a tool, as this is usually evident.

It is obvious (to me anyway, maybe not to you as I think you may take
it for granted) that your type of skills are what is needed in tool
testing. I miss the old days of testing (probably about 500 years
ago like everything else I am fond of) when some testers would take
the tools to the shop and test for accuracy, build, and ease of use.
Then it would go out with someone like a Tom Silva that knew how to
use them (not abuse them) and they would get his opinion. If they
were really hitting it hard, they would retest the tool in the lab
after a few months in the field.

As the homogeneous masses of Chiawanese tools continue to flood the
market, often replacing old favorites, I think we have less and less
actual choices beyond the coloring and the graphics unless we are
ready to take the big monetary leap to the Euro tools.

For someone like me that knows when purchasing that a tool could be
lost, dropped, broken, stolen, left behind or abused, it is important
to balance expenditure to realistic term of service.

In that light, I am not ready to spend $600 for a sander that will be
a target for theft on a job site.

So what is a reasonable alternative to the $600 sander? Even if I
tell myself I am buying a way of life, not a sander, it doesn't work
for me personally anyway.

How do we find credible alternatives?

That's what I am looking for.

Robert.