On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 17:57:22 -0700 (PDT), in uk.d-i-y
wrote:

On Aug 14, 11:03*pm, Phil Addison wrote:
On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 22:21:25 +0100, in uk.d-i-y Grunff
wrote:

Dave Liquorice wrote:

Thank you and yes I agree there is nothing in the actual, under the hood,
wiki database that links anything to anything else except when it is
included in the navigation. This makes a wiki rather powerful and as
always with power comes responsibilty to use that power wisely.

It certainly makes a wiki flexible, but it also creates a huge amount of
extra work, required to achieve any semblance of a hierarchy.

Wikis offer the most flexible type of index, which is why people love
them. I just like my information to have a built-in level of
organisation, even if it means imposing some limitations :-)

Hmmm... sounds as if there could be a parallel scheme, with a nice neat
hierarchical structure, and drawing its content from the Wiki articles,
either by snapshot imports or by simply linking to them. It could be
called The uk.d-i-y FAQ. * * *Just needs a volunteer! *

Phil *G


Lack of volunteers is the prime point imho. We could come up with a
scheme, but so far no-one has volunteered to do it. IIRC we only have
2 multiple article contributors so far.

Putting a traditional heirarchical structure on the wiki is I think so
fraught with issues its hardly worth considering, but I do agree that
some means to make it easier to find articles would be a big step
forward.

Someone taking the trouble to come up with a parallel mechanism as
suggested above, or any other hierarchical access scheme, is IMHO vital
for the long term success of the project. Without it, the wiki can be in
danger of becoming swamped by a mish-mash of random short articles.

Nobody has to publicly 'volunteer', but is welcome to try out ideas
behind the scenes in the beta area of the FAQ - just contact me; address
is valid.

I also think there's a very simple solution. Its one I was going to
propose earlier, but there's just one detail I hadnt yet figured out.
The idea was to move the content in 'Main page' out, renaming it
something else, and make the 'Main page' redirect to the contents
page, this one:
http://www.wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index....ecial:Allpages
So when someone clicks on or links to 'Main page', that contents page
shows up.

That's not what I understand as a Contents Page; it is an alphabetical
index, and perversly sorted by rows instead of columns. Nevertheless,
just doing that would make the wiki content a lot more accesible to
first time visitors, many of whom must be frightened away by the
existing entry page. As I said before, the wiki is fine for those
searching for a keyword but hopeless for the curious just wondering what
sort of stuff is in it.

Now I'm certainly not going to pretend this is the perfect answer -
there's no heirarchy or organisation,

.... which is its key problem!

but it does seem to answer every
other requirement.
* Its easily implemented
* The page automatically updates itself as new articles appear, no
ongoing maintennace work is needed
* People have a single introductory point that shows them all the
articles on the wiki, and which they can search for keywords if they
wish
* People tend to click on 'main page,' so its the perfect place to put
this introduction to the wiki.

Yes, yes, and yes. Go for it!!

And finally bear in mind that altho some would like more structure,
reality is there is no such structure to be found anywhere on the
wiki, and

I'm doubtful that someone will come along

You never can tell.

and
a) create it
b) maintain it indefinitely

These are two separately do-able tasks. Lets try to be positive, not put
off any potential helpers.

With so few contriobutors I think any solution would have to be easy
to implement and maintenance free. This idea is, and it does the job,
albeit not as neatly as some might like.

Go for it!! Any improvement in accessibiliity will lead to more readers;
Some will turn into contributors, and maybe one of them will tackle a
parallel hierarchical access scheme.

The one q I didnt figure out was what article name to call the current
content of 'Main page'

"About this Wiki", or even "Obsolete"?

Thanks for your thoughtfull respose.

Phil