On Aug 7, 10:39 am, mac davis wrote:

When I got my first biscuit jointer, I did a few experiments with it... just
curious if the things were any good..

Somewhere back here in the archives I put on the data on my home
tests. Like you, I had to see. I had been using my biscuit machine
for a while, and liked it a lot, but in all honesty never battle
tested the joints I made using them. I read some of the opinions that
started cropping up on Woodweb, Woodworkers forum, Sawmill, etc, a few
years ago (amazing how many copy and paste from forum to forum) about
the lack of integrity of a biscuit joint.

I was using my BJ in my business, and got a little shaky in using it.
I sure didn't want to go back to dowels for connectors. But the bane
of any service business has to be warranty. I couldn't stand the
thought of a lawyer's bookcase (remember when we all had to build
those damn things?), built in cabs, or anything else failing.

As time went on, more and more piling on came about with the "biscuits
are useless" tribe. Based on nothing except what they had heard on
another forum, it was one of the more well traveled stories of the
internet. I finally got nervous enough (and biscuits are SOOOO cheap)
that I had to do some testing of my own.

I edge glued 2x12 pine from left over shelving together. One test
group had no biscuits, the other had biscuits every 4 inches. I let
them dry, and place the them parallel to my sawhorses with the long
edges riding on the sawhorses and the joint in the middle. I stacked
weight on them until they broke.

True enough, neither broke at the glue joint, but the un-biscuited
joint failed with significantly more weight on it. I could only guess
that it was because (from observation) the one without the biscuits
flexed more than the other when under stress. I only did that one
test and seeing how strong the biscuit joint was, I was relieved. I
wanted to try it with hardwood, but that stuff is now and always has
been gold around here.

So... since filling 4d nail holes in the stiles of cabinets are always
a pain, and sometimes obvious after finishing, I decided to glue
stiles on with and without biscuits on test piece of cabinet plywood
to mock up a carcass. When pulling the 1X2 away from edge of the
plywood, there was significantly better hold with the biscuits. But
the biscuits pulled out hunks of plywood after a pry bar was used. I
was happy knowing that my clients would never take a pry bar to the
cabinets.

But where the biscuits on plywood really did their stuff was when I
try to shear off the 1X2 in a motion that was perpendicular to the
plywood. Now good sir, that was some real holding power. Hercules
would have had a good time with that.

My test results were like yours. Properly glued, properly set, etc.,
I was actually surprised. Then (sure wish I had it now!) I ran across
a university study that compared modern joining methods. If you want
to see a kick ass joint that will hold up well past any expectations,
double or triple the biscuits. Wow. They tried biscuits v. dowels,
biscuits v. mortise and tenon (like the link I posted) and some
others. It was obvious that the biscuit joiner had great value.

Triple biscuit that 2X4 test miter you did and try to tear them apart
after drying. Then you will see how much holding power those little
*******s have. This is also amply shown in one of the graphics on the
supplied link.

But I think it is important to remember, like today's Domino, the BJ
came about to allow a woodworker (probably a professional since they
started making them in the 30's or 40's in Europe for the furniture
industry) to make fast, accurate joints. The joints made with this
machine were not made to replace a welder, 10" lag screws in 8x8
posts, or other types of joining methods.

To me, the beauty of the biscuit joiner is that it takes no time to
master and it makes accurate, repeatable and durable joinery fast and
easy to do. I have literally never had a biscuit joint fail. If they
did, I didn't know about it.

That includes edge gluing as well. I don't believe that something
that works as well as it does with so little hassle for certain joints
doesn't bring anything to the project except alignment reference
points.

But I was worried enough to spend a few off hours testing for my own
satisfaction. I have never heard of most of these 0.03 a word
computer jockeys that write these contributing pieces and simply don't
trust most of what I read in their respective bird cage protectants.
Besides, when I had to lab test my biscuit joiner I had been using it
for about 3 years or so and had just bought another 1000 biscuits!

I was almost convinced I had purchased a boat anchor and didn't know
it.

It isn't the end all machine for all joining, but it has served me
very well. I don't actually use it that much, but it serves me well
when I do. It has proven to be 100% reliable.

I have no scientific basis for the holding power, but it impressed the ****
outta me..

Good for you for wood shedding that product, though! How many have
actually done that? Probably most don't have any idea what any of
their tools are actually capable (or incapable) of doing...


BTW: Robert, WTF is a literati?

Well, I like Tom's answer better. Heh, heh... literato.

Anyway, to me a the literati are the folks that think they are "in the
know", the folks that have read mountains of information on a subject
or two and deem themselves "experts" of sorts. In the case of those I
was referring to, rarely do those "in the know" have much hands on
experience, nor do they have any practical usage time to support their
opinion.

Yet they will argue endlessly to defend their point of view simply
because they know no better. But being well read on a subject, they
feel like they know a lot about it, so therefore they are an expert.

This applies to just about any subject, BTW.

In this case, I would wonder how many of the folks that have repeated
over and over that biscuits are just alignment tools have actually
used one for anything more than a weekend bookcase or coffee table.

Every time I see the alignment tool myth start up, I think of Homer J.
Simpson.

(Think of a whining voice) "Ohhhh.... but Marge, it HAS to be
true.... I read it on the internet!"

Robert