On 7 Aug, 08:52, "Vortex2"
wrote:
same with electrical solar power it takes more power to create a solar
panel than the panel will produce in its entire life

Incorrect.

Read http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/sustainable/book/tex/cft.pdf
pages 45-46

“The energy required to make a solarpanel is much bigger than the
energy it’ll deliver.”

False. The energy yield ratio (the ratio of energy delivered by a
system over its lifetime, to the energy required to make it) of a roof-
mounted, grid-connected solar system in Central Northern Europe is 4,
for a system with a lifetime of 20 years [RichardsandWatt,2007]; and
more than 7 in a sunnier spot such as Australia. (An energy yield
ratio bigger than one means that a system was A Good Thing, energy-
wise.) Wind turbines with a lifetime of 20 years have an energy yield
ratio of 80.


B.S. Richards and M.E. Watt. Permanently dispelling a myth of
photovoltaics via the adoption of a new net energy indicator.
Renewable and Sustainable Energy Reviews, 11:162172, 2007.
URL http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/13640321


In fact the whole document is a good read!

Certainly is! I'm printing and binding three copies of it. Even at
over a kilopage, that's a good use of the paper.