On Aug 2, 8:02*pm, "
wrote:
On Aug 2, 4:52 pm, "J. Clarke" wrote:

Cool, Dude! *With you around I feel like I have my own editor, fact
checker, and wife all in one shot! *Thanks for the careful reread.

My comments were made in simple idle conversation with my Saturday
morning coffee, but once again I appreciate your efforts to bring my
meanderings up to the expected standards of this group.

A great deal of Hitachi is owned by B&D,

Quite a trick for B&D to own "a great deal" of Hitachi, considering
that Hitachi is about 20 times the size.

Our perspectives might be quite different. *I had read somewhere that
B&D (sorry, no cite, but I am sure you will supply a "yeah" or "nay"
as needed!) had bought a stake in the tool arm of Hitachi America
which was (in my understanding) formed in order to manufacture and
distribute their current line of consumer tools.

It is perspective; for example (don't apply these to Hitachi/B&D when
you are looking the numbers up, I pulled them from the air for
purposed of illustration) if company X buys into a family member
company for 200 million, that may be a lot for the family member
company. *If the parent company of the family member is worth a
trillion dollars, it isn't worth mentioning.

What B&D did do in 2002 was

enter into a "cooperative business arrangement" with Hitachi. *The
current B&D annual report does not even contain the word "Hitachi".

Wouldn't argue that one. *I have no doubt you have read all umpteen
thousand pages of the subsequent back up documents, so I believe you.

Funny that if the reason is B&D ownership, Dewalt, Porter Cable, and
Delta, all of which _are_ owned by Black and Decker, do not have
similar "bizarro colorations, decals, and plastic gizmos glued all
over their tools".

I wonder... it is possible that they have resisted putting all that
stuff on DeWalt, PC, etc. because some still consider them
professional tools? *Are you saying that if they are all owned by the
same company they should all look alike and not target specific
markets? *My personal opinion (ha!) is that with today's tools, the
marketing department identifies the niche, and the tool, the design of
the tool including how and where it is made are all done with the
niche (dollar specific) in mind. *You could be right, though. *Other
forces could be at work.

Incidentally, you are aware are you not that Skil is owned by Bosch,
not Black and Decker, and that Bosch is a privately held company based
in Germany?

No, am not aware, I am not, that Bosch is privately held. *Bosch GmBH
is held by the Robert Bosch foundation, and 10% of the company is
held by the Bosch family. *I am not trying to pick nits here, but I
didn't want you to fall into the same hole I did when I said "Hitachi"
and you took it to mean the entirety of Hitachi and all its
permutations and holdings.

I am guessing here, so feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong
(seriously... feel free! *;^) *)
but I would think that you know that many of the Chinese manufacturers
of low end products are simply jobbers. *They bid on jobs like I do.
I have a friend of a friend that gets a trade magazine from
manufacturers in China, and you can get anything you want made there
with your name on it.

Take a look at this, and go to the bottom of the page. *http://tinyurl.com/5llmun

Any of that crap look familiar? *No telling how many different brands
we know are made side by side on the same lines.

You are aware, are you not, that those "low quality made in China"
Craftsman hand tools are all stamped "Made in USA", not on a sticker
but in the die?

Once again, I am not aware, I am not. *I looked at my cordless drill
and it says "Made in China" on a decal. *Same with the light, same
with the saw (bundle kit - $129). *No die marks anywhere... *I even
checked the charger. *I am sure they are Craftsman, though as I
purchased them there myself.

Makes me wonder. *Now I am afraid to look at the rest of my tiny
Craftsman collection.

Still though, I wouldn't blame Sears for the rest of the manufacturers
making lousy tools, no matter where they are made.

I used a lot of really crappy tools and saw a whole lot more when the
venerated Rockwell tools decided (no, I don't know who did it or why)
to come up with a homeowner line. *It was as bad as anything out
there, and the worst tools that I think (here's my opinion, no facts)
probably the worst tools mass manufactured (my definition of mass may
be different than yours!) in the USA for sale to the public.

Robert

You know what I find amazing, Robert, is that sudden realisation that
I had just yesterday whilst wandering through the Halls of Tooldom at
Home Depot.
First, a parallel to another line of products: DVD players. At first,
$ 1200.00. Then a hole range of players at $ 700.00... everybody
wanted a piece of Joe Consumer. Then, when the $ 700 units slowed down
in sales, the figured they had recouped enough of the investment and
they started dropping prices to leech out all the $ 400 buyers..then
down to $ 200, $ 50, $ 19.99... now they can't give the damned things
away because everybody has one. (Now, those slick MoFo's started an
'improved version of video disk so they're mostly obsolete anyway,
yadda, yadda)

Which raises the question: Doesn't (most) everybody already have a
jigsaw, cordless drill and such? What's with the 'end-of-aisle'
promotions by Makita, DeWalt, Ryobi...the list is endless, where you
can buy entire workshops in a bag for a couple of hundred dollars? Who
are they after? Are we at the almost total market saturation point
already? (The equivalent of the 19.99 DVD player WITHOUT an encore???)

That bearded douche nozzle Billy Mays (sp?), that MOST abrasive pitch-
dick, was selling a metal stick, with 2 prongs to be used as a weed
auger of some type...and wait!! There WAS more...a FREE rechargeable
drill!!! $ 19.99!! They are now throwing the ****ing things away!!
Nobody wants them, and nobody cares.
Maybe the next incarnation of the cordless drill is one that drill
more than one hole at the time, hell, it worked for Shick and Gilette!

Cheaper, better faster... and once Joe consumer buys that crappy 25
dollar sander......guess what? He's OFF the market for that $ 50,00
sander that might actually DO what he bought the 25 dollar one for.
grammar alert

Yes indeed, by selling him a piece of ****, you have just eliminated
one of your customers.

Smart, huh?