On Jul 27, 9:59Â*am, " wrote:
On Jul 27, 9:32Â*am, ransley wrote:





On Jul 27, 7:02Â*am, " wrote:

On Jul 27, 7:05�am, wrote:

On Jul 27, 1:16�am, Rick-Meister wrote:

Some demand heaters have a modulating gas valve......some. Not all.
And certainly not the low end units.

I'll say it again. I'm not saying that demand heaters aren't
efficient....they are. But there are a few issues with them regarding
efficiency across the board and low flow.

Geez guys, settle down a bit and read the whole post before you flame.
All I told the guy was to evaluate his usage and be aware that there
are some circumstances where the demand heaters, well, I'm repeating
myself.

End of discussion--at least for me.

Before it ends, I'd like an explanation and reference for a couple of
your statements:

"The higher the water pressure, the larger the BTU's required to
handle the same usage. "

This makes absolutely no sense. �If the tankless is heating 5 gallons
of water, what possible difference in efficiency could it make if the
water pressure is 30 PSI or 60PSI? �I have never seen anyone claim
that pressure factors in at all to sizing a tankless.

I also don't buy the analogy of comparing a tankless to constantly
refilling a pan heating water on the stove. � You state that you are
constantly reheating the pan, as if the pan itself somehow takes and
holds heat. � � In reality, the heat is going into the water. �Some is
escaping as loss around the pan, to the surroundings, but that happens
regardless of whether the pan is being refilled every minute or left
alone for 10 mins. � In fact, MORE heat will be transferred to the pan
in the case of it being refilled with cold water, as the cold water
will absorb more of the heat without it being lost to the
surroundings.

If you refill the pan 10 times in 10 minutes, you wind up with 10 pans
of barely warm water. � If you leave one pan sit for 10 minutes, you
wind up with one pot of hot water. �If you think some energy
inefficiency is at play here, explain exactly where this lost energy
is going?

one issue with tankless is the delay between draw water to hot water
arrives.

the tankless must detect water flow, and turn on water, .........

as a tankless owner told me, we save energy on heating water, but
waste water and sewer....

now admittedly its not a killer cost but it is there.

another tankless troubling issue..........

if you have temperature control shower valves the fast changing
temperature from tankless can cause valve hunting, where the shower
temperature doesnt remain stable......

here we have AOSMITH vertex tank type water heaters. 96% efficent
without the downsides of the tankless.

one last tankless issue.

most require power line voltage to operate. no power no hot water at
all.

unlike tank type heaters that have at least a couple quick showers
onboard at all times...........

so one morning the power is out Your choice before work

No shower at all or a cold one...... which do you preferr

tankless are fine, just like the original vW BUG was....

it will take you to the same place as a more comfy larger vehicle, but
has limitations. saves energy though.

if your willing to live with the many limitations more power to you.
myself I prefer the comfort of a regular tank, espically when Vertex
can supply both the comfort of a tank with the efficency of a
tankless.....

hey ransley, you can get one when your tankless craps out in a few
more years- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Â*Here we go again, Hallerb you are 1 can short of a 6 pack. I think I
should just call you, yo, 5pak.

Â*Delay might be 15 - 30 seconds

Â*Waste, my water bill has not changed, and once pipes are hot you dont
realy notice anything, but of course you never used one, but think you
know

Â*What total bs, tankless dont change alot or hunt on temp , again your
lack of use is lack of knowledge

Â*A vertex is NOT 96% efficent, its near 80 EF, the burner is 96% but
not overall efficency which is what you need to learn about. And
notice AO Smith wont tell you EF of a Vertex or cyclone. I have a 93%
AO Smith Cyclone a 80 gal 190000 btu unit. Ive had it for 6 years and
its EF is near 80. Yes its saved me alot over my old tank of near 45
EF. But dont kid yourself, Tank are 15-20% less in overall efficency
to tankless. Read EF ratings, not burner ratings

Â*My 117000 Bosch needs No AC, it used 2 D batteries for ignition. Your
condensing tank, needs AC

Â*Here again I have a AO smith 93% Cyclone, give me one valid reason my
tankless should "Crap out" soon you cant.

Â*Hey 5 pak. The Vertex is not as efficent as even a Non Condensing
Tankless. Learn EF rating and quit postin crap- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So you admit a 30 second delay, every time you turn hot water on till
hot water arrives, thanks to the turn on time for the water
heater?????

Excellent were making progress

Now lets assume in a quiet home hot water is drawn 20 times a day

Thats 6 minutes of wasting water and sewer at whatever the flow
daily.

OR 180 MINUTES OF WASTING WATER AND SEWER A MONTH.

now figure in 3 GPM times 180 minutes of pure waste

thats 540 gallons per month around here water and sewer rates have
skyrocketed.

combined about 20 bucks per thousand when the latest increase becomes
effective. so waste of a quiet home = 10 bucks a month. can easily
double that in a busy home with teenagers....

http://www.ho****er.com/products/residential/gas.html- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Your figures of waste are off, my water usage is not increased, figure
this, even with a tank you have cold water in the pipes that you push
out, at the location I use it my tankless is now 20 ft closer to the
upstairs risers, tankless can allow more options to be near point of
use, your arguments are trivial.