wrote:
On Jul 27, 9:32 am, ransley wrote:
On Jul 27, 7:02 am, " wrote:





On Jul 27, 7:05�am, wrote:

On Jul 27, 1:16�am, Rick-Meister
wrote:

Some demand heaters have a modulating gas valve......some. Not
all. And certainly not the low end units.

I'll say it again. I'm not saying that demand heaters aren't
efficient....they are. But there are a few issues with them
regarding efficiency across the board and low flow.

Geez guys, settle down a bit and read the whole post before you
flame. All I told the guy was to evaluate his usage and be aware
that there are some circumstances where the demand heaters,
well,
I'm repeating myself.

End of discussion--at least for me.

Before it ends, I'd like an explanation and reference for a
couple
of your statements:

"The higher the water pressure, the larger the BTU's required to
handle the same usage. "

This makes absolutely no sense. �If the tankless is heating 5
gallons of water, what possible difference in efficiency could it
make if the water pressure is 30 PSI or 60PSI? �I have never seen
anyone claim that pressure factors in at all to sizing a
tankless.

I also don't buy the analogy of comparing a tankless to
constantly
refilling a pan heating water on the stove. � You state that you
are constantly reheating the pan, as if the pan itself somehow
takes and holds heat. � � In reality, the heat is going into the
water. �Some is escaping as loss around the pan, to the
surroundings, but that happens regardless of whether the pan is
being refilled every minute or left alone for 10 mins. � In fact,
MORE heat will be transferred to the pan in the case of it being
refilled with cold water, as the cold water will absorb more of
the heat without it being lost to the surroundings.

If you refill the pan 10 times in 10 minutes, you wind up with 10
pans of barely warm water. � If you leave one pan sit for 10
minutes, you wind up with one pot of hot water. �If you think
some
energy inefficiency is at play here, explain exactly where this
lost energy is going?

one issue with tankless is the delay between draw water to hot
water
arrives.

the tankless must detect water flow, and turn on water, .........

as a tankless owner told me, we save energy on heating water, but
waste water and sewer....

now admittedly its not a killer cost but it is there.

another tankless troubling issue..........

if you have temperature control shower valves the fast changing
temperature from tankless can cause valve hunting, where the
shower
temperature doesnt remain stable......

here we have AOSMITH vertex tank type water heaters. 96% efficent
without the downsides of the tankless.

one last tankless issue.

most require power line voltage to operate. no power no hot water
at
all.

unlike tank type heaters that have at least a couple quick showers
onboard at all times...........

so one morning the power is out Your choice before work

No shower at all or a cold one...... which do you preferr

tankless are fine, just like the original vW BUG was....

it will take you to the same place as a more comfy larger vehicle,
but has limitations. saves energy though.

if your willing to live with the many limitations more power to
you.
myself I prefer the comfort of a regular tank, espically when
Vertex
can supply both the comfort of a tank with the efficency of a
tankless.....

hey ransley, you can get one when your tankless craps out in a few
more years- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Here we go again, Hallerb you are 1 can short of a 6 pack. I think
I
should just call you, yo, 5pak.

Delay might be 15 - 30 seconds

Waste, my water bill has not changed, and once pipes are hot you
dont
realy notice anything, but of course you never used one, but think
you know

What total bs, tankless dont change alot or hunt on temp , again
your
lack of use is lack of knowledge

A vertex is NOT 96% efficent, its near 80 EF, the burner is 96% but
not overall efficency which is what you need to learn about. And
notice AO Smith wont tell you EF of a Vertex or cyclone. I have a
93%
AO Smith Cyclone a 80 gal 190000 btu unit. Ive had it for 6 years
and
its EF is near 80. Yes its saved me alot over my old tank of near
45
EF. But dont kid yourself, Tank are 15-20% less in overall
efficency
to tankless. Read EF ratings, not burner ratings

My 117000 Bosch needs No AC, it used 2 D batteries for ignition.
Your
condensing tank, needs AC

Here again I have a AO smith 93% Cyclone, give me one valid reason
my
tankless should "Crap out" soon you cant.

Hey 5 pak. The Vertex is not as efficent as even a Non Condensing
Tankless. Learn EF rating and quit postin crap- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So you admit a 30 second delay, every time you turn hot water on
till
hot water arrives, thanks to the turn on time for the water
heater?????

Uh, I've never seen a tank heater that didn't have a delay between
turning on the tap and hot water arriving. How long the delay is
depends on how much pipe there is between the heater and the tap.

Excellent were making progress

Now lets assume in a quiet home hot water is drawn 20 times a day

Thats 6 minutes of wasting water and sewer at whatever the flow
daily.

OR 180 MINUTES OF WASTING WATER AND SEWER A MONTH.

now figure in 3 GPM times 180 minutes of pure waste

thats 540 gallons per month around here water and sewer rates have
skyrocketed.

combined about 20 bucks per thousand when the latest increase
becomes
effective. so waste of a quiet home = 10 bucks a month. can easily
double that in a busy home with teenagers....

http://www.ho****er.com/products/residential/gas.html

And if you have no delay it's not because you have a tank water
heater, it's because you're recirculating the water in the pipes to
keep it hot, which costs more than using a little extra water.

--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)