On Jul 17, 1:32 pm, wrote:
The IEEE is good enough for everyone here but W_. They show plug-in
surge protectors being used. As for technical proof, where is W_'s
that says plug-in surger protectors offer no protection and actually
cause damage.

We discovered two plug-in protectors earthing lightning
destructively into two powered off, networked computers. A hot
(black) wire surge that probably would have been made irrelevant by
the power supply, instead, was shunted around both supplies, into
motherboard, out network, and to earth ground destructively via a
third computer. But that is obvious. Any surge permitted inside
the building means surges can find destructive path to earth via
appliances. Other examples have also been observed.

Meanwhile Page 42 Figure 8 shows same. Surge energy was permitted
inside a building because only plug-in protectors were used. Plug-in
protector does not even claim to protect from a typically destructive
surge. Plug-in protectors did not stop, block, absorb or make the
surge disappear. 'Clamping to nothing' only permitted surge damage.
Instead, that surge energy was earthed 8000 volts destructively via
the adjacent TV. What kind of protection is that? Ineffective
protection that trader must ignore.

But again, trader misrepresents the facts. Nobody said "plug-in
surge protectors offer no protection". That is trader again reading
only what he wants to see – what he must read only to argue. Plug-in
protectors protect from surges that typically do no damage. Plug-in
protectors protect from surges made irrelevant by protection already
inside appliances AND made irrelevant by one 'whole house' protector.

Why spend $3000 in plug-in protectors (as Bud says is necessary)
when one 'whole house' protector provides the same protection – and
other protection? Obtain same protection for tens or 100 times less
money. Meanwhile a 'whole house' protector also protects from surges
that typically do cause damage.

Where is that spec for ANY plug-in protector that claims to protect
from a type of surge that typically causes damage? No such numeric
spec exists because no plug-in protector claims to protect from the
typically destructive surge.

How do we know? Every responsible source including IEEE Standards
(where IEEE makes recommendations) state what the effective protector
must do. Plug-in protectors do not do what effective protectors do.

Of course, trader is too emotional to read these facts. These facts
are posted for others who would learn science - who do not worship
what is promoted by retail salesman. From IEEE Std 141 (Red
Book)::
In actual practice, lightning protection is achieve by the
process of interception of lightning produced surges,
diverting them to ground, and by altering their
associated wave shapes.

From IEEE Emerald Book:
It is important to ensure that low-impedance grounding and
bonding connections exist among the telephone and data
equipment, the ac power system's electrical safety-grounding
system, and the building grounding electrode system. ...
Failure to observe any part of this grounding requirement
may result in hazardous potential being developed between
the telephone (data) equipment and other grounded items
that personnel may be near or might simultaneously contact.

IEEE Green Book (IEEE 142) entitled 'Static and Lightning Protection
Grounding':
Lightning cannot be prevented; it can only be intercepted or
diverted to a path which will, if well designed and constructed,
not result in damage. Even this means is not positive,
providing only 99.5-99.9% protection. ...
Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct
strokes from one stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per
6000 years ...

Yes, IEEE says you can use plug-in protectors. But to protect from
surges that typically do damage. IEEE lists what is necessary to
provide that protection. Only 'whole house' protectors provide that
earthing. No plug-in protector meets those IEEE requirements. Yes
you can also install equipment to protect from gamma rays or nuclear
electromagnetic pulses. IEEE even says how that works. trader says
that provide gamma ray protection is also surge protection? That is
trader's reasoning. The IEEE says what protection systems must do for
effective surge protection. No plug-in protector does that. No plug-
in protector claims to do that.

Only protectors that earth surge energy harmless in earth: 'whole
house' protectors. Only protectors always used when surge damage is
not acceptable - 'whole house' protector.

What is always required when using plug-in protectors? A properly
earthed 'whole house' protector. What does what any plug-in protector
might do? A properly earthed 'whole house' protector. What makes all
plug-in protector functions redundant - wasted money? A 'whole house'
protector. What does Sun Microsystems, the IEEE, NIST, US Air Force,
QST (the ARRL), Dr Kenneth Schneider, Electrical Engineering Times,
Schmidt Consulting, Polyphaser's highly regarded application notes, a
station engineer from WXIA-TV, engineers who eliminated damage to
Orange County FL emergency response facilities, every telephone
company, commercial broadcasters, nuclear hardened radio stations, etc
all require for surge protection? Plug-in protectors do not provide
sufficient protection. All require earthing and protectors that
shunt (connect, divert, clamp) to earth ground. In every case, plug-
in protectors do not provide that protection.

Meanwhile another highly regarded IEEE author notes the problem with
plug-in (point of connection) protectors. In his 1995 IEEE paper,
Martzloff stated as his very first conclusion:
Conclusion:
1) Quantitative measurements in the Upside-Down house clearly
show objectionable difference in reference voltages. These occur
even when or perhaps because, surge protective devices are
present at the point of connection of appliances.

How many sources does trader ignore? Plug-in protectors can
contribute to electronics damage. Plug-in protectors do not even
claim to protect from typically destructive surges. Surges that a
plug-in protector does protect from are 1) typically not destructive,
2) made irrelevant by protection inside all appliances, and 3) made
irrelevant by one 'whole house' protector. Yes, even IEEE says you
can buy plug-in protectors. IEEE then shows why plug-in protectors do
not provide protection required by all consumers. IEEE even shows how
plug-in protectors can contribute to appliance damage.

Meanwhile, if plug-in protectors provide protection, then trader
posted numeric specifications provided by that manufacturer. Why do
no plug-in protectors list protection from each type of surge? No
provided by a plug-in protector is protection from surges that
typically are destructive. How many IEEE and other sources say this?
Thousands that trader must ignore.

One 'whole house' protector, without or without plug-in protectors,
is the 99% protection defined by IEEE. But effective protectors do
have the massive profit margin and are not recommended by the naive.
Trader - why do you recommend consumers waste tens or 100 times more
money on a solution that does not even claim to provide protection.
Oh. Trader - where are those plug-in protector specs that even claim
to provide effective protection? Oh. Trader knows that protection
must exist. Trader need not first learn engineering facts?

Just because IEEE recommends band pass filters for RFI also proves
that RFI filters provide surge protection? That also is trader's
reasoning. Plug-in protector that cost tens or 100 times more money
do not have and cannot provide what the IEEE requires for effective
protection – a low impedance connection to single point earth ground.

Naysayers instead want to hype what protects from irrelevant surges
and does not protect from destructive surges The OP asked what any
informed consumer would ask. How do we install, upgrade, or inspect
what provides surge protection - earth ground? How to obtain
effective earthing for protection was posted in reply to the OP -
Caesar Romano.

Effective surge protection means surge energy is not inside a
building - is instead dissipated harmlessly in earth. Where is the
plug-in protector that claims to do that? No – not one – plug-in
protectors makes such claims in its specifications. No earth ground
means no effective protection.